Here's another God paradox.  

Can God make a rock so big that he cannot move it?  

If there is no answer to this, it would seem that God is not omnipotent, 
after all.  

Comments?

153 responses total.

God created humans with wills so strong that He cannot move them...so I
suppose a rock is another possibility.

Does this mean that he is not omnipotent?  Is it true that God can *not*
do everything?  

 Not that I need to speak for God, but He is omnipotent, and all powerful.

I personally believe that God can do everything.  In fact, in my lifetime
I have seen him do some darned impressive things.  Maybe He just doesn't
have any good reason to move that rock!

I think god is a pretty good guy... but I think God can be everything 
Christians believe without being omnipotent...

Does it say in the Bible that God is omnipotent?  If it does, could anyone
say where?  Maybe He's not supposed to be omnipotent, after all.

r
Nephi, are you speaking in terms of knowledge or power?  There are many
of places in the Bible which speak of God having unlimited power and
authority; also, places which speak of His knowledge and wisdom.  
Job 11:7-9 is a good place to start.  I can't remember offhand if the
word "omnipotent" itself is used; however, the context is used time and
time again in reference to God.  (Particularly in the Psalms).  Just
the word "Almighty" is in and of itself descriptive of omnipotence, and
is found many times in many passages.

These aren't paradoxes, they're just artifacts of human languange
and human reasoning.  "Can God make a blue sky that's completely red?"
"Can God create an object that doesn't exist?"

thank you.

Nephi, I beleave that God can move that rock.  Yousee Nothing is to big
or to heavy for God.  I say this because I was that heavey rock.  I 
hated God because I didn't have a mom or a dad, and I felt that he 
wasn't real and If he was I just wasn't going to follow him.  Untill
oneday when I decided just to pray for something just to see if God 
was really real.  I prayed for God to give me parents and if he did I
told hi;m taht  would follow him, well on my 18th birthday I got 
Adopted, I new right then that God is real and that he can move the tuffest
hardest, and heavyest rock around.  He can move your heavy rock to if you 
just let him.

So he can't create a rock so big that he can't move it?

Yes, he can, but he can move it.

Hmm?  Then he didn't create a rock he couldn't move.  Right?

Wrong.  He can create a rock he can't move, but he
can move it.  

God then did not create a rock he can't move because he can move it.
Welcome to paradox!

I beleave that what md is trying to say is that God can make a heavey and reall
(sorry) big rock that we seem that can't be moved, but because God is so 
powerful and Mighty he can move the rock, so there for he wouldn't make a rock
that he couldn't move.  Even the devil could try to make the heaviest rock in
the world, but because of how powerful God is he would be able to move it.

But if God can do *ANYTHING*, he could make a rock so heavy that he couldn't
move it.

Why should god(?) even bother? Who's to say god's omnipotent? The bible?
Other beliefs are different. Maybe a more appropriate god would be less
vengeful and we would be more apt to believe in him/her and we wouldn't
care if god could make a rock or move it.

Vester- we're taling hypotheticals.. We assume, for sake of argument, that
God does care to move it.
Secondly, we ARE talking about the Christian-Judeo God, Which means that,
as far as all their texts and doctrines go, He's omnipotent. *I* don't
worship Him myself, and I don't encourage others to.. I'm just having
fun playing with the mythology..

if anything can make a rock it can't move, it's too powerful for it's own
good....

  Let us first understand that according to the Bible, all things 
  were created by the creator.

  Time, Space, Weght, Volume, etc., are all a part of His creation.

  Although the Bible states that we were first created in the "image
  of God", we are not, and I repeat, not the Holy Creator Himself.

  The Creator's ways are not our ways. Ie, we can not understand all
  of His powers. Most of them are mysterys, or are impossible for us
  as created beings to understand.

  Let us accept that we are not 'all that' as we sometimes like to 
  think of ourselves.

  Let us quit fooling ourselves into thinking that we are as 
  wise as our Creator; we are wasting time with these foolish
  statements of philosophy.

  We only know about God because He has revealed himself to us 
  through Jesus Christ; whom some have unfortunately made 
  into a swear word. His name though is not a curse, but rather 
  a blessing unto all who will recieve Him.
________________________________________________________________________

Welcome to the Paradox conference, Dylan!  I welcome the diversity you bring.
 
Hmm . . . so what *is* your answer to the question posed in #0?  Do you think
that God can make a rock so big that he cannot move it?

Well, I thought you already understood what I believe but I will 
try to expand upon the idea.

All of creation is in His control. 

If He has created something, He has placed it himself somewhere 
in space; the space in which He Himself is not confined to.
Ie, even space itself was created by Him, therefore anything in
that space(a LARGE BIG rock)cannot be too large for its creator
(who put it there in the first place)to move.

Now all of this is irrelevant if God wanted the rock to stay at 
a specific point. Ie, if He put the rock there to stay, there
it shall stay. He cannot go against His own wishes.

If there is a rock in your life too big for you to move, ask
the LORD to move it for you; you won't be disappointed !!!

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IF god created everything then where did god come from?

<orinoco is beginning to suffer from severe deja vu>

<orinoco plays devil's advocate...>  why did god need to come from anywhere?
who says he can't 'just exits'

Because that denotes the infinity of his existence, and such a concept is far
outside human uderstanding.  There fore, we have to ask the question of where
god came from, because the idea that he has always "been" is beyond us.

Of course there are numerous arguments against the idea of god's infinity, but
they are long and drawn out, and I have to be to work in 20 mins.

"If God is all-powerful, can he create a mountain that even he can't move?"
That's the oldest, though doesn't really address the idea of infinite
existence.

I think #12 hits it right on the head!  I f the question is a paradox
why shouldn't the answer be a paradox as well?  Us humans can't very
well accept the notion of aparadox so we try like mad to define something
which by definition cannot be defined, thus creating (to our dismay) yet
another pesky paradox to gnaw away at our minds.

randall--now you're contradicting yourself.  In the 'square circle' item,
you called it 'ironic' that we think our ideas define the universe.  But
now, you're claiming that, if humans can't understand infinity, nothing can
'just exist'.

<Eldrich decides this is beyond his motal comprehension and is very quiet>

Uh...no...
I never said that nothing can 'just exist'.  I said we can't understand it.
We have to ask the question, because we are compelled to question things, but
because we cannot understand the concept of infinity, the only question we can
muster is 'where did God come from?'
It is ironic the we think our ideas define the universe, for exactly this 
reason.
We believe that our definitions have some sort of meaning outside being simple
tools to help us live less chaotically.  But the universe (and God too, if I 
believed in Him) may well be infinite (I couldn't tell you for sure), and 
therefore, our ideas couldn't possibly define it, because we can't have that
idea.

   It IS possible for god to make a rock that he can't move. He'd just make
ye ol' big rock and say "I will not move this rock in the course of my 
existance, which, with him being arouind forever, would mean it would never
get moved.  Or he could make another ye ol' large rock which he can't move
then he could blow it to bits (He is capable of it), then he wouldn't 
technically be MOVING it, but he would move the particles, so I have no idea.

Would it be possible to make the rock with the decree that he could never
move it (unbreakable oath of an officer and a gentleman)?

If He did, he'd just be weasling (sp?) of the situation.  (no blasphemy 
intended).
The point of this paradox (which I'm sure you all get, and your just being
facetious) is that if God can do anything, than he should be able to move
any rock, but if he can do anything, than he should be able to make a rock
that he can't move, but then we go back to him being able to move any rock...
You see?  I've put this too many of my friends and aquaintences who are 
Christian, and they've either waffled their way out of it, or simply said
'I don't know'.  The point is no one seems to have a (serious) answer.  I'm
not saying this totally defies the possible existence of God, but I think
it demonstrates why I don't believe, and why I don't understand why others
do.

Well, I don't believe, but I think the paradox is easily explained away.  We
are arguing about a being that by our own defn. is *way* beyond our
comprehension.

It may be a way to differentiate the "clock winders" vs. the "active
interference" models of God, though.  If weolved our own language, then we
could say that our language is flawed, can't handle such paradoxes, and God
is yet again disappointed in our behavior.  If everything is the result of
an active creation, then it is either a test or a sign that God is flawed.

Or it could just be a dumb question.    :)

snaf--even if he decided he wouldn't move it, he'd still be able to.
There is, of course, an easy way out of the paradox.

You just declare one of the assumptions flawed.
FOr instance, if you didn't belive that GOd was omnipotent, then it wound't
be a paradox at all

Works for me...

also, on the course of "an officer and a gentleman" decree, the bible says
that god will never break his word. and he hasn't, yet. So if he said
he wouldn't move the rock he wouldn't.

/

the issue is not "wouldn't", but "couldn't"

sure, he could refuse to move teh rock, but would he be able to do so

<Eldrich advises god to take the fith>
I've forgoten are we talking about the Christian God or God in general?

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss