I was given this paradox by an atheist friend of mine.  No one has ever
been able to show the flawed logic in this paradox that seems to prove
that the Christian God doesn't exist.  It goes as follows:

These three following statements are all commonly held beliefs of
Christians.  

1)  God is all powerful. 
2)  God is all good.
3)  Bad things happen.  

Is there a flaw here?  

27 responses total.

I think a Christian apologist will tell you that your
statements assume definitions of "good" and "bad" that
are too narrow.

If God is all powerful, can he create a mountain that even He can't move?
(go ahead, I dare ya!)

Md, most Christians, if asked, would concede that bad things happen.  It 
doesn't matter what definition *I* use, just the definition *they* use.  
I think that the paradox shows some sort of logical inconsistancy in a 
person's thinking that believes all three at the same time.  

What do you think?  (BTW, what is a Christian apologist?)

Randall, I've entered an item concering that very paradox.  Check it out.

God is good. God is all powerful.  But there is also Satan; therefore, bad
tthings happen.

But think about it, suzi.  If you were all powerful, would *you* permit bad
things to happen?  If God is all powerful, isn't he more powerful than 
Satan?  Couldn't he make Satan behave?

But would you want to be a mindless character with no will to choose whom
to follow: God or Satan?  God created man with the ability to think and make 
choices; the sins of the first man and woman (who were seeking God's knowledge
and truth) seemed to set the pattern for all the future generations.Genuine 
love cannot exist unless given by free choice; God created us hoping that we
would return this genuine love of our own volition.  When we chose to
rejectreject that love, it made the possibility of evil become real.  Man
brought evil upon himself by choosing to go his own (not God's) way.  If you
are a Christian, you believe that God sent his son down to live in the ways of
the world; therefore, he did not exact anything from man that he did not exact
from himself; that is, hard work and labor, personal choices, betrayal, pain,
humiliation and even death.  Could God have *stopped* evil?  Probably.  But in
His infinite wisdom, He gave us freedom of choice.  We know that evil came 
about as a result of that freedom of choice.  When we choose to love God, we
ourselves take the power away from Satan.

I do not think god is all-powerful or all knowing...why would we exist?
Why wouldn't we just exist only in God's mind?  I think without people,
God's existance would be boring.....don't you think?

Re 6:

So are you saying that God is not all good?

Not at all.  I believe that God is all good.  Just that He, in His desire
to have his creation, man, be happy and able to return His love willingly,
gave man the ability to think for himself.  Man, in turn, made mistakes.
Just as a parent could prevent a child (particularly a grown, reasoning
child) from making mistakes, God, if He so desired, could scoop us all
up in His great hands and save us from ourselves (hence His Son coming to
earth).  But He gave us the power to act on our own (He could have made
us all God-worshipping robots) and, therefore, allows us to make our own
decisions. albeit some wrong ones.  Just as a loving Father has to let
his children go, hoping they have enough foundation to do the right things,
God loves us enough to give us that freedom. The hardest, but most loving
thing a parent can do for a grown child is to give him "wings" and let him 
fly on his own.  The bottom line is, I think a *less* loving God would
have created us all as automatons.

I really like what Suzi is saying.

So you are saying that an "all good" God *lets* evil happen without
doing anything about it?

how can we reject evil if we do not experience it or see its consequences.
so...yes an "all good" god will allow evil to happen.

Are you good if you see someone about to kill someone else and don't do 
anything about it?

good point...but if you go back to the "father example" if your son
is about to do something you really don't approve of, and you know it,
you may tell him you don't approve...but you may allow him to learn
from his own mistakes so he can be an example for your other children who
may make the same mistakes.  very difficult for a father to do, but there
may be some kind of overall "good" done here.  I can not prove this...

Um, lets see...

You see one of your children about to kill his sibling.  You tell him not
to, knowing that he will do it anyway.  You do nothing else to stop it.  
Are you good?  Is there an overall good here?

knowledge of evil is good, seeing evil makes you think about it... how
can you appreciate good without knowing what evil is?

There is probably no really good answer to this... maybe we can go back
to the basic Christian beliefs... like God is all powerful...  and 
discuss its significance... it doesn't seem to have any in what we are 
talking about right now...

I know that i am kind of late talking on this sobject but I just had
to leave a responce about if God is All Powerful.  God is all powerful
and if he wanted to he could move a mountain, but you see God doesn't have[A[A



I know that I am kind of late, talking on this subject but I just had to 
leave a responce about if God isAll Powerful.  God is all Powerful and
if ge wanted to he could move a Mountain, but you see God doesn't have
to prove himself in that type of away.  I really liked what suzi said
about this paradox.  I think she hit the a homerun with her responce.  
I wuld just like to leave you with this thought.  You see the reason
why we have evel in thei world goes all the way back to Adam b
(opps sorry) and Eve.  You seee when God made Adam and Eve he made
them perfect but Eve went and ate the apple which God told them 
not to do they disobeyed God and thats where we get sin or evel.  
There is also some place in the Bible where God says that he alowes 
temtation to be in our life so that we will be able to show him how much we
love him.  So yousee there is a God, and he is All Good and All Powerful.

So would you let your son kill his younger brother so he could exersize
his free will?  Would you be good if you did?

I am not shure really what you are asking me.  But I will try to answer your
question the best I can.  No I wouldn't let my son Kill his younger brother 
to excersize his free will.  To me to KIll some one is not excersizi
free will (sorry about that), Besides KIlling is a sin but it can be forgiven
if the killer realizes that what they did was wrong.  And to answer your 2nd 
part of your question.  No you wouldn't be good if you let your son do that,
you would be sinning right along with him if you alowed that to go on.

Is it bad for God to let one of His children kill another one of His 
children so that that child could excersize his free will?

        Of course it is bad of this supposed "GOD". That's why I simply don't
believe in such a silly concept as an all-good, all-powerful entity that
has divine influence on anyone.
        The Devil is merely a creation, conjured up to try and cover for
        everything
ISN'T good, with this supposed God watching over EVERYTHING, at EVERY
moment! That is what it means to be omnipotent! Even *with* a foe like
the supposed Devil, this omnipotent God would have no problem thwarting
him every time, before the problem even gets started!

Perhaps someone should define the term "good".  Everyone's definition may not
be the same.
o

OOPS! . . . that is, may not be the same in reference to a or "the" deity of
choice.

Hmmmm.  I'm just a novice at this.  What's the correct way to end this
response?  at # 22 I unintentionally departed this topic.  

Welcome to Grex, Cheri!  (I gather that you figured out how to end your 
response  8^)

What *does* "good" mean to the average Christian?  Is it defined in the Bible
anywhere?

following the 10 commandments for a start....except for David, who coveted
(and more) his neighbor's wife, and got away with it....

Hmm.  What does it mean to be all good?  What is the pinnacle of goodness?

to me, god is all good and powerful sounds logic to me, and bad things does
happen. However, what's the relation between things happening to all powerful?
All may happen and the power ma ynot take any place at all...

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