The other day, we (krj, micklpkl, bru, aj, goose, and I; not necessarily in
that order) were talking about persian rugs, Jefferson Airplane, and a few
other things on the party channel. Actually, I was saying how delighted I was
for having found JA's music, talking about people's names at the same time. Bru
came on and dropped a few words about a certain persian rug, then we were
drifted into a short talk about the movie Persepolis.

Now, look what I have found:
http://www.herbgreenefoto.com/gallery/jefferson_airplane/grace-1.jpg

And, hardly 18 hours after the talk, by totally unplanned means, I have got
Persepolis on DVD.

Tell me synchronicities are only figments of imagination... or relate another
tale of coincidence.

27 responses total.

That's not synchronicity. It's seeing things that are already on your mind.

Grace Slick was pretty as a kid, eh

To anyone caring to read this: Come on, people. Is the notion really so boring
that you cannot afford to drop a line or two about it? At least, tell me it is
indeed boring.

Re #1: The point is, I have been living in this world for some time, almost
avidly listening to lots of diverse music during the more active part of it
(say, past 8 years, and I am 23). I had listened to, or at least read about,
almost anything anyone cared to mention to me, even in passing; despite my
incapability to appreciate quite a lot of it. Anything from Scarlatti's Salve
Regina to Bach's Matthaeus Passion, to Arvo Paert's In Memoriam Britten, to
Philip Glass' Akhenaton, to Love Me Tender, to Joshi Juni Gakoubo's lame/light
imitations of classics, to Pink's latest hit song.

And... all this time, I had not heard of one the greatest rock bands ever. I
know my ignorance is not limited to that, but then, this specific case is truly
glaring. Then, by sheer chance, I come to learn about them and like their music
and guess what, in less than two days I get so much of them and similar bands I
cannot even handle.

Sure, I did search for the Grace Slick photo, but I did not put that clearly
persian rug in the background. And I did not even ask a friend for the movie
Persepolis. It came with a batch of DVDs which by another strange coincidence
also contains Oliver Stone's cinematic biography of Jim Morrison and The Doors.
See? I do not think this whole thing is just because I have been more
sensitized to JA material for the past few days. It is more like if you get
involved in something all the paraphernalia somehow attached to your original
cause come flying to you.

Re #2: You are so absolutely right! Though, she is not a "kid" in there, if you
meant that seriously.

pure Jungian synchronicity.

It's too bad your lack of knowledge concerning LSD will prevent you from
an in depth understanding of those bands. 

That never helped me understand the Airplane. I always understood they were
stoners and trippers, but I certainly gained no further insight after doing
the same things myself. OTOH, reading about the whole Haight-Asbury scene gave
me a much better understanding of the music that arose in SF, though I can't
say my rather tepid enjoyment of the "sound" increased very much.

Yeah, like listening to any of your music increases it's enjoyment at all.
Some things just stay sucky no matter what.

   <<< winter agora #385 linked as music #53 >>>

Re #4:

You mean, you believe in or have strong affection for the notion of a
collective/universal subconscious? Jung seems to have had such tendency and to
have thought that synchronicities give evidence for such unifying principle.
Though, the very label "subconscious" gives it a human tint, while many a
reported synchronicity (like mine, which you may as well interpret just as
selective perception) has involved totally unhuman, even inanimate, agents.

My case, for instance, does not involve two different unrelated humans
(presumably linked by the collective subconscious) giving me clues to the same
material but a human talk amplified by a number of seemingly chance events not
particularly affected by human agents. Not to mention, the photo with the rug
in the background has come to us from a rather remote past (I was not even born
then). So, you will also have to endow the Jungian collective subconscious with
some knowledge of future events to explain for that happenstance. That is, of
course, if you are going to stick to that interpretation and also include my
case in your file of synchronicities.

As for LSD, a little knowledge will not hurt certainly. Give me pointers to
books, hyperlinks, references, freely accessible (and reliable, of course)
content preferably, and I will try to become knowledgeable about it, within my
timeframe. If by "knowledge" you mean "gnosis" or "first-hand experience," well
then, that is not my stuff.

Re #5:

The Haight-Ashbury hint was interesting. Thanks.

Re #7:

I hope that will get me a few more posts to chew on ;-) By the way, I am
listening to some live recordings of The Great Society sessions. Grace Slick
appears on them in her shiniest moments of contralto rapture. Darkly Smiling is
a true gem. I think I prefer those recordings to pure JA cum Marty Balin
tracks, such as Comin' Back to Me.

  isbn  0-553-34321-1       corpytriter  1987  f. david peat, auth.
  

I doubt this would be a "synchronicity" given how it seems almost fashionable
for sound snobs to rail against digital audio. However, after reading a few
anti-digital quotes recently from the likes of Keith Richards and others, I
found this article in Rolling Stone called The Death Of High Fidelity. Nice
insider knowledge here:

http://tinyurl.com/26d9la

This response has been erased.

Anyway to edit abalone?

re#8

"two different unrelated humans
(presumably linked by the collective subconscious) giving me clues to
the same
material but a human talk amplified by a number of seemingly chance
events not
particularly affected by human agents."

The humans agents do not necessarily be unknown to each other unless you
want to argue that such effects have causality and hence lie outside the
true definition that jung coined.
 
I thought you said a friend gave you a stack of CDs that contained
related material.

I assumed that by this statement:

"And I did not even ask a friend for the movie
Persepolis. It came with a batch of DVDs which by another strange
coincidence
also contains Oliver Stone's cinematic biography of Jim Morrison and The
Doors."





"Not to mention, the photo with the rug
in the background has come to us from a rather remote past (I was not
even born
then). So, you will also have to endow the Jungian collective
subconscious with
some knowledge of future events to explain for that happenstance."



Here's a somewhat similar occurrence that Jung himself had: 



"Jung claims that in 1805, the French writer  mile Deschamps was treated
to some plum pudding by a stranger named Monsieur de Forgebeau. Ten
years later, the writer encountered plum pudding on the menu of a Paris
restaurant, and wanted to order some, but the waiter told him the last
dish had already been served to another customer, who turned out to be
de Forgebeau. Many years later, in 1832,  mile Deschamps was at a diner,
and was once again offered plum pudding. He recalled the earlier
incident and told his friends that only de Forgebeau was missing to make
the setting complete   and in the same instant, the now senile de
Forgebeau entered the room."

"As for LSD, a little knowledge will not hurt certainly. Give me
pointers to books, hyperlinks, references, freely accessible (and
reliable, of course) content preferably, and I will try to become
knowledgeable about it, within my timeframe. If by "knowledge" you mean
"gnosis" or "first-hand experience," well then, that is not my stuff."


er...I didn't mean "gnosis", I meant EPIgnosis.

All the books and links in the world can't give you that.

Re #9:

I read about the book you are recommending tsty:
http://www.scimednet.org/bibliography/trans_jungian_synchronicity.htm

It says:

"Peat, F. D. (1987). Synchronicity: The Bridge between Matter and Mind. New
York: Bantam. ISBN 0-553-34321-1.

This is another attempt to relate synchronicity to developing ideas in science.
It begins in a Newtonian universe of mechanism and ends in a Bohmian universe
of limitlessly unfolding and transforming consciousness. The book is thin on
examples and doesn't convey much of the experienced quality of synchronicity,
but it provides some useful theoretical perspectives."

Having had formal education in physics, I was utterly disgusted by the phrase
"Bohmian universe of limitlessly unfolding and transforming consciousness."
Either the person who wrote that paragraph or the book's author is harboring a
hopelessly distorted understanding of quantum mechanics.

Synchronicities provide an interesting subject to talk and think about, I
think. However, I know of no mainstream scientific experiments focused on
proving that they do exist as distinct phenomena and are not simply statistical
oddities or by-products of subjective judgement. Let alone connecting them to a
rather well-known, if not mainstream, interpretation of quantum mechanics (the
Copenhagen school is mainstream today, not without reason).

Re #10:

I actually do not see where the CD versus Vinyl (or digital versus analog)
debate fits in this talk. And, "given how it seems almost fashionable for sound
snobs to rail against digital audio" has very little (or nothing?) to do with
the coincidence I described in #0, or... it does and I am pretty dumb?

Re #12:

"The humans agents do not necessarily be unknown to each other unless you want
to argue that such effects have causality and hence lie outside the true
definition that jung coined."

I want to rule out the probability that two related people may have (quite
innocently) cued me into something they share as a common interest, or have
perhaps talked about quite recently. For instance, you may begin hearing more
and more about a certain band at school/work shortly after being introduced to
their work by some pal of yours and think it to be a synchronicity, when it is
actually a new student/colleague (who happens to be a fan of the band) roaming
around, making new relationships, and sharing their interests.

"I thought you said a friend gave you a stack of CDs that contained related
material."

That "I did not ask a friend," meant I did not talk to anyone about it and also
that it did not come to me by any planned means. The batch of DVDs I received
was not even intended for me. It was my brother who had been making a to-watch
list of movies for some time and then asked a good friend, some weeks ago, to
prepare the batch for him. The batch could have been ready a week later, or a
week sooner, but happened to be ready just less than 18 hours after the talk I
mentioned in #0. There were technical details involved that did not depend on
human interaction (that is, no asking/proposal/offer/by-talk). Hence, a
counter-argument against calling that unifying principle a "subconscious,"
which sounds very human.

"Here's a somewhat similar occurrence that Jung himself had..."

Question is: are you (or was Jung) going to equip the collective subconscious
with a knowledge of future events to account for such occurences? Or would you
drop the concept in favor of another interpretation?

"er...I didn't mean "gnosis", I meant EPIgnosis."

You mean, something "divine" or religious is involved in the LSD experience? I
ask that because you are using a term from the New Testament. Perhaps you only
mean "first-hand experience."

This response has been erased.

"Perhaps you only mean "first-hand experience."

Heh..yes. I'm definitely not advocating LSD usage for a religious
experience. In fact, I think you do well to not have first hand
knowledge. I am just saying that bands from that era ,who were really on
the edge, were all performing and writing  under the influence of LSD.
It's hard to    perceive that aspect of them unless you have been
somewhat exposed to" tripping"  

Again Re #10:

Oh, I just saw what you meant. Mea culpa. On #13, I was thinking you were
somehow saying that #0 was not a synchronicity and trying to instantiate by the
hyperlink. Took me some time to realize.. guess I am pretty dumb, after all.

Re #15:

And I probably need to go back in time and lose a parent to WWII to properly
relate to Pink Floyd. I know, that is an extreme analogy. I see what you mean,
even though I doubt that the most creative works of even a psychedelic rock
band are only results of "trips." The trips may have provided inspiration, but
then the trippers must have also been sober sometimes to get to compose/write
anything coherent..

I'm not sure that last sentence is necessarily true. Folks like the Grateful
Dead were known to live an a fairly permanent drug-induced state. I doubt they
sobered up to write and record.

Yeah, bellstar. There is a term that might apply: "Functioning alcoholic."
Lots of people (moi included) have been able to lead productive lives, and
often lives where they even outshine the accomplishments of others, while
drinking or doing drugs. Like some rock singer sang, "If you wanna run cool,
you need heavy fuel." :) It is a falsehood that drinking adversely affects
people all the time. Sometimes, yes, but it can also be a useful aid. Why do
you think so many people do it? Without that "self medication", they might
lead useless, unproductive lives.

and I don't think all the "bands from that era"  were all in drug induced
states of consciousness, adn they certainly didn't all use the same drugs.

The counter culture itself had a major influence on the music world, and 
Phil Spector and his "Wall of Sound" techniques were responsible for a lot
of the sound coming from that period.  (okay, it had nothing to do with the
words, but a lot to do with the sound)

He murdered a woman. His name should be stricken.

"And I probably need to go back in time and lose a parent to WWII to
properly
relate to Pink Floyd."

Only if your basis of relation is based solely on the wall( their second
greaset commerical success)

You would have to be a tripper to relate to "meddle" or "umagumma"

Just about anyone could relate to "wish you were here" and "animals"
anyone in the modern business world that is.  

re 13 .. murst abe synchronitcity, i jurst started to r-read my copy
two dyas ago ... wow.

Re #17 and #18:

I always thought being on alcohol or hallucinogens would almost totally disturb
one's capability to function normally. You could probably be inspired by
hallucinations but then you would not be coherent enough to "record" it. Unless
you are being supported by a large crew of people who get you all you need,
somehow sit you in front of the mike, and let you improvise. Syd Barrett's
album The Madcap Laughs was recorded almost in that manner. Although, it does
not represent the best of Barrett; instead, it signals his decadence. The album
contains many unsuccessful takes, and in them Barrett times over leaves the
band behind to improvise or to mock. Those takes are really pitiful.

Re #20:

He is not found guilty of it yet. There is evidence supporting his innocence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Spector#Murder_charges

Re #21:

A Pillow of Winds or Seamus from Meddle seem quite comprehensible to me.
Ummagumma also presented few problems, specially because I had previously
heard The Grand Vizier's Garden Party mixed on a short film that wonderfully
matched the music.

Re #22:

Intersting. Anyone else?

I fucking hate Pink Floyd. Weirdos.

"A Pillow of Winds or Seamus from Meddle seem quite comprehensible to
me."

How about echoes?

Re #25:

Echoes sounds like one long long mystery to me :-) Just discovered a few bars
around the 19th minute that are exactly like Andrew Lloyd Webber's introduction
on Phantom of the Opera. Surely, it must be the other way 'round (PhotO is from
1986, while Meddle came out in 1971).

All music comes from the same basic stuff, bellstar.

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