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For discussion of Mac wireless internet networks. This is a continuation in Micros cf of the discussion in Summer 2004 "short question" item. Response 1 is all the prior discussion on the topic.
86 responses total.
#10 of 28: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Sat, Jul 3, 2004 (15:01):
What is involved in installing Comcast Broadband? That is, what boxes
are put where and wired to what and how?
#16 of 28: by (gregb) on Tue, Jul 6, 2004 (14:32):
Re. 10: The tech will bring in a coax cable from outside and connect it
to a cable modem that'll sit near your computer. The cable modem will
connect to your computer in one of two ways: Either through a USB port
or a network PCI card. Tell the technician you want a network card.
They're more reliable and stable, IMO. The tech may then want to
install software on your PC; If you go for the network card setup, just
have him/her install the card driver. Preferrably, do it yourself, if
you know how.
#17 of 28: by Mike McNally (mcnally) on Tue, Jul 6, 2004 (15:52):
re #16, re #10:
Greg's summary is more or less correct, but if I'd written it I'd've
tried to stress the part about asking the tech if there's any way to
activate the service *without* running the cable provider's install
disk on your computer. They might be less obnoxious on the Macintosh
(or then again they might not) but on a PC these install disks tend to
do lots of "helpful" things like reset your browser's home page to the
cable company's corporate portal, re-brand your Internet Explorer
browser by adding a bunch of crap to the registry to "customize your
Internet experience", etc..
Your Mac almost certainly has a NIC card built in already, with drivers
pre-installed, so the installer really shouldn't have to set up *any*
software on your computer. You *should* only need to set up your TCP/IP
control panel to use DHCP (aka "obtain an address automatically") and
possibly enter some name server entries if those are not provided by
the DHCP server.
If they want to install some special "dialer" application on your computer
to connect using PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE) spend an extra $40 bucks and
buy yourself a Linksys home cable/DSL router and use that to manage the
PPPoE connection (and the rest of your network, too..)
#18 of 28: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Tue, Jul 6, 2004 (20:36):
Thanks Greg and Mike. Is that the same cable as for the TV, and is it just
a "T" taken to the computer?
Do multiple computers require multiple cable modems? Is that a big
expense?
In any case, there is a problem as our computers are on the second story
with no simple way to run cables to them (except from outside the house).
What about a local wireless interface?
Also, nothing that sounds like a "NIC" card is indicated in the System
Profiler. I've also installed USB and Serial cards and didn't notice any
others already there.
#19 of 28: by Glenda F. Andre' (glenda) on Tue, Jul 6, 2004 (21:32):
Multiple computer require a router or you pay more. We didn t have to run
the comcast software cd to get ours up and running. We use a cheap Lynksys
router between the cable modem and the computers.
#20 of 28: by Joe (gelinas) on Tue, Jul 6, 2004 (22:04):
"NIC" is "Network Interface Card." Most such for personal computers are
Ethernet. Didn't you say your machine(s) had Ethernet built in?
#21 of 28: by Mike McNally (mcnally) on Wed, Jul 7, 2004 (00:49):
re #18: in order to share your cable-modem connection between multiple
computers, use a home router box. Linksys makes an excellent product
with (~$80) or without (~$40) wireless. You'll probably want 802.11b
or 802.11g wireless if you intend to network computers in multiple parts
of the house and don't want to cable between them and then you'll have
to add wireless cards (better) or USB wireless adapters (recommend against)
to computers that are not physically near the wireless access point..
#22 of 28: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Wed, Jul 7, 2004 (01:08):
Yes, the computer has ethernet built in (and I have an ethernet LAN).
Does the cable-modem just plug into that?
My computers are a PowerMac running OS 10.3, an iMac running OS 9.2.2
(takes no cards, but has ethernet), and of course there is the TV. What's
your recommended hookup for these (I might want to plug a visiting
Powerbook into the LAN and put it on the cable too).
#23 of 28: by Mike McNally (mcnally) on Wed, Jul 7, 2004 (03:02):
My recommendation is to buy a wireless access point with 4 port switch.
The Linksys WRT54G is $67 from Amazon (which means it's probably cheaper
elsewhere) and has a $10 rebate.
If you set up the cable modem and a box like the one above near the iMac
you can plug the iMac into one of the 4 wired ports and have the PowerMac
hooked up via a wireless card or wireless USB adapter. If the visiting
Powerbook has an Airport card they'll be able to connect using wireless,
too, probably from anywhere in the house.
#25 of 28: by Tim P. Ryan (tpryan) on Wed, Jul 7, 2004 (12:40):
Know what email adress you want when you call comcast to get
installed.
You need an available one, so that TimRyan@comcast.net is someone else, after
various tries, I became TimRyanAA same company. See if you get bounced
emailed from your proposed account. Have alternatives ready.
I needed no install software.
The thing I would do different is to tell the tech right off
that it's going to be your hands on the keyboard, not his. Mine was
looking at stuff, as far as I'm concerned he should not be looking at,
in the process to do the comcast.net lookup and such.
Newsgroup service on comcast is done thru giganews. You get
1 gig a month.
#28 of 28: by John H. Remmers (remmers) on Thu, Jul 8, 2004 (09:55):
Re #23: My Linksys wireless access point went bad after about a year.
Replaced that and the Linksys 4-port router with an integrated
Netgear 4-port-plus-802.11g-wireless that has performed flawlessly
for the 6 months that we've had it so far.
#29 of 29: by TS Taylor (tsty) on Thu, Jul 8, 2004 (12:18):
you really, really really ... want a local router betwixt your b0xen and
the cable modem. i don't recommend wireless necessarily, but whatever
floats your boat .. as long as there is a NAT in front of your NIC.
#30 of 34: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Thu, Jul 8, 2004 (12:42):
Since I've never used most of the connection hardware that has been mentioned
in this thread...I think I need a diagram showing the devices and how they
need to be hooked up. My experience to day has only been plugging together
ethernet links (and a LocalTalk net, which is still being used). Are there
such example configurations on the web somewhere?
#31 of 34: by Mike McNally (mcnally) on Thu, Jul 8, 2004 (14:35):
re #30:
The configuration is usually extremely simple. The cable modem
plugs into the wall jack via an ordinary coax television cable.
On the back of the cable modem is (usually) a single twisted pair
ethernet jack. Use a Cat5 or better twisted pair ethernet cable
to connect the ethernet jack on the cable modem to the "WAN" or
"Internet" port on the router box. Assuming you have bought a
router with a built-in switch and not just a wireless access point,
there will be four (or more) twisted pair ports on the back of
the router/switch that you can connect directly to computers that
have a 10 or 100Mbps twisted pair ethernet port (almost everything
these days.)
If you buy a model that is also a wireless access point, you can
of course also add wireless clients, such as laptops with built in
802.11b (or g) (in Apple parlance, "Airport") as well as desktop
computers in hard-to-cable locations, using a special PCI-bus card
or USB wireless adapter.
tv 10BaseT 10BaseT
cable wired
| | _________ computer 1
/| +-----+ +--------+/ wired
|.|_______| |___________|. ....|---------- computer 2
| | +-----+ +--------+
|/ \
wall cable wireless AP \
jack modem 4 port switch
\
\
wireless
computer n
#32 of 34: by TS Taylor (tsty) on Thu, Jul 8, 2004 (16:27):
.. and (foollowing on the great #31) due to the way comcast & etc run
their 'customer identification' get the local router IN PLACE and
operating *BEFORE* comcast shows up.
when it is connected, you can http:// 192.168.1.1 (usually) and do
your configuration and setup.
wehn comcast shows up the installer will say someting like ' i can
only plug in directly to your computer's NIC card,' which is probably
true since they won't warranty a local newtwork.
so .... right after installer plugs in ethernet cable into computer, wait
a miinute or so and move thier cable to your router and plug your
router into NIC
port.
when comcast 'reads' the source it will read your *router* id and
conform thusly. you might even have already (recommended) implemented
the router's NAT (newtwork address translation) .
there are a buncha addresses you can 'install' beforehand.
iirc, mine is from the block of sun's cards - or irix b0x address
block .. got a couple routers, don;'t remember which is in use.
the specific reason for doing this *beforehand* is that comcast will
read the NIC address and PROHIBIT a different NIC from working!!!
if you wnat to change later, you have to call comcast and run some
deal like, 'well, i changed my card from 10 Mbs to a 100 Mbs and the
card works but your internet connection doesn't.'
or, maybe, ' i changed from half-duplex to full-duplex card.' something
technical enough that the comcast pest-filter will comprehend
sufficiently enough to tell comcast's gear to re-read and re-set.
btw, if the concast guy trys to scare you into ' oh, *that* won't work,
it's not a computer,' (i just glared at the dolt). simply say someting
simple like 'well, that is the computer i want on the net - it *is*
a computer afterall.
not recommended is to utter ANYthing like, 'it's my internal newtwork for
the house.' just call it the computer you want working.
when the installer hassles you ... just answer, 'i'm happy with what
you have done ... thank you.'
#33 of 34: by Mike McNally (mcnally) on Thu, Jul 8, 2004 (17:13):
re #32: I don't know what Comcast's official policy is but these days
most broadband ISPs have conceded that many customers want to plug in
more than one computer. Many (e.g. Verizon DSL) even advertise this as
a feature of their service and will sell you a home router box at a
special price when you sign up for service.
I guess what I'm saying is that I doubt that Comcast makes a big deal out
the issue anymore, though I can't say for sure.
#34 of 34: by Scott Helmke (scott) on Thu, Jul 8, 2004 (19:02):
I've got a Netgear MR-314, which I got a couple years ago so something else
is being sold in its place now. It's a combination firewall, router, and
wireless box. As McNally described, it's got an "Internet" port which I
connect to the cable modem, and it does various things to protect the
computers on the other side of the firewall.
TS - when the Comcast installer came to my house I first hooked up my iBook
to test the connection, then plugged in the Netgear box. It didn't work,
and
we couldn't figure it out... until I thought to reboot the cable modem. Then
it worked just fine. I guess the cable modem got fixated on the MAC address
of my iBook and needed a reboot to look for something else.
#35 of 41: by Glenda F. Andre' (glenda) on Fri, Jul 9, 2004 (03:27):
Sorry TS but your information is old. They no longer care what mac address
you have, and you can change it at will. They no longer care whether you
have
a router or not, they figured out that they can't control it so why bother.
We have changed which machine is connected to the cable modem (when the
router
was down) and have changed routers with no problems or questions from
Comcast.
#37 of 41: by TS Taylor (tsty) on Sat, Jul 10, 2004 (11:37):
re #33, #34, #35 ... good info ,all. and, #35 .. i am *happy* that
my info is old. it makes life easier for everyone now.
and take scott's info to heart as well ... reboot to re-sync b0xen.
sounds as if comcast has bent to the will of the ppl! nat-ocracy in action.
Here are my tentative plans for installing a wireless internet network for my house. I will use a Mac Airport Extreme base station and a MacWireless 11g Ethernet Adapter (see MacWireless.com). For starters this is all I need as the PowerMac G4 and the iMac are already on a ethernet LAN with a hub: the 11g adapter can just plug into that and both computers should be linked and connected to the internet. If the two computers get moved so that the ethernet LAN is no longer practical, a MacWireless 11g PCI card could be used in the PowerMac and the iMac left on the Ethernet Adapter. Our daughter's Powerbook G4, which is already Airport Extreme equipped, could just join in the net when it is home. Of course, I welcome comments on this plan.
Sounds good.
...and it works - so far. I installed the Airport Extreme Base and connect to it from the G4 with the Macwireless 11g Ethernet Adapter on the LAN. I have started running the Airport Base Modem to connect to Merit (to get the hang of the wireless connection configuration before I switch to cable internet). The main problem was connecting/disconnecting the Airport modem: this functionality is only available on the OSX with "Internet Connect"..IF there is an Airport card installed. The day was saved by finding a small utility written by someone at Drexel U to connect/disconnect the Airport modem via the wireless connection. Next - connecting the iMac simultaneously to the internet on the LAN, wirelessly, and then getting the Comcast cable internet account.
...and adding the iMac in works too. So I can be doing different things on the G4 and iMac, which are on the wired ethernet LAN, and this LAN is connected wirelessly to the internet - at the moment by dialup from the Airport Base modem. Cable modem here we come. Of course, this could all have been done without "wireless", which only saved the problems of stringing ethernet cables around the house.
Mac OS 10.3.5 has some changes to help things work with Comcast. I've never had a problem using Mac->Airport->BaseStation->ComcastModem, but have had them using Mac->Ethernet->ComcastModem. Sometimes you have to put the modem on standby then back online to get DHCP to work. As for disconnecting the base station from a dial-up connection, the Airport Setup Assistant won't do that, but the Airport Admin Utility will. As I understand it your configuration is: ComcastModem->AirportBaseStation->WirelessNetwork->G4->LocalEtherNet Looks good to me.
The end is AirportBase->WirelessNetworkAdapter->LocalEthernet->G4 (and iMac). There is a neat utility available at http://edge.mcs.drexel.edu/GICL/people/sevy/airport/#Hangup for connecting and disconnecting the Airport modem, from the desktop. I've been unable to connect to Comcast after enrolling, buying the cable modem and connect-kit, and installing everything. After some discussion with Comcast on the phone, and trying various things, they ask about the lights on the modem - and one is not showing cable synchronization. So I agreed for a Comcast house-call. The tech found no digital signal on my cable and, sure enough, he went outside and found a "trap" in place on the incoming cable. He said that at one time traps were installed so people could not steal internet access (but anyone knowing enough to steal internet access would know to climb the pole and switch the cable from the trapped to the untrapped connector on the box....). Anyway, he switched the connector, and I had signal. But... As of right now, I do not yet have high speed cable access. I think it may be that the modem is mis-configured with the IP address I need, so I need to leave it off until the current DHCP lease expires....I hope it is this simple (this heads-up is from Macworld.com/forums).
Broadband! WOW! Instantaneous (nearly...) web pages. I'm sure this is old-hat for a lot of you but I'm excited by staying up with the receding edge (as opposed to the cutting edge). That thing about letting the DHCP lease expire was true. Nothing about that, of course, in the Apple Airport, Linksys cable modem, Comcast installation, or MacWireless literature. I would like to thank those that commented and offered advice while I was setting this up: it all improved by understanding. A couple of amusing footnotes that came out of this: The Comcast tech, while changing the cable to skip the trap, commented that the cable end was "burned". When he brought down the piece of coaxial cable he cut off I saw that the center wire was black. But that is just the result of the oxidation of copper when the weather has access to it: copper oxide is black. While checking my cable modem he had to talk to someone at the Comcast office, and commented that he wasn't going to use the installation disk from Comcast as he "didn't want all that junk on my computer". I then gathered from how he responded to the person on the phone that he was being taken to task for calling what the Installer installs "junk". Anyway, I'll never find out what it does install, as I'm connected without using it.
I have discovered that Comcast has a block on relaying e-mail that I generate in Netscape or IE that will be handled by my e-mail server at another ISP. I have sent them an inquiry about unblocking this relay, but would like to ask here why they do this and whether they are friendly to unblocking it. I've done some web searching, and allegedly it is to cut down on spam. However I did not understant how this would do so. I do not read my e-mail with a browser, and receive none through Comcast. All I want is to be able to click on "send mail" links on web pages and compose a send e-mail. Responses would be through my e-mail ISP.
They don't want you sending spam with forged sender addresses through their mail server, probably. If Comcast won't help you, ask your other ISP if they'll support SMTP authentication so you can send through their servers when you're not on their network. SMTP AUTH has been around a long time but take-up has been kind of slow in the U.S.
Try changine your e-mail composer to use the Comcast SMTP server, but leave everything else alone. That way mail will go out with the same from information but will go: Mac->Comcast->Destination instead of Mac->OtherISP->Destination I think you can make your SMTP server dependant on the Location setting, so you can switch your ISP and SMTP server just by changing the location.
I think that's what he's trying to do, and the Comcast server isn't letting him relay. I could have misunderstood, though. Another thing you can try is making sure that you've checked your Comcast mailbox just before sending. Some servers use "POP before SMTP" for authentication, where it lets you send if you've checked your mail from the same IP address within the last several minutes.
Will using the Comcast SMTP server put comcast.net as the From address?
Re #11: how do I do that, prp? I'm rather "lost" in there protocols. I haven't created an e-mail account with Comcast, yet. Is this the first step?
Re #11: I figured it out myself. I just changed the outgoing mail server to smtp.comcast.net - and it worked. I thought it was going to ask for a password, and it did the first time (my comcast.net PW) but not thereafter.
Ah, okay. I thought you'd already done that and it hadn't worked, that's why I gave somewhat confusing advice.
I shouldn't have said I figured it out "myself" only: I did look at the comcast.net forums and found some comments (full of jargon) that mentioned smtp.comcast.net, so that's what I tried. Funny thing, though, I haven't gotten an answer to my earlier e-mail to Comcast asking about this error message - and their mail response says it "might take a few hours" for a reponse. Maybe everyone was at the beach for Labor Day.
What are the relative uses and merits of the various security options available for wireless networks (and Airport wireless networks in particular)? A variety of options are described in Airport Help - WPA, WEP, Closed Network, port settings (SNMP access, etc), and maybe others, but there are no suggestions on choosing them - or choosing them simultaneously (?).
Re 17: I hate those automated messages that say "we got your message and will respond". That might be the right thing for @aol addresses, but not in general.
I have enabled WEP 128-bit encryption on my wireless net as well as "closed network". Although Airport supports both WEP and WPA encryption, my net's wireless Adapter only supports WEP: but that's sufficient for a home net, although not totally secure for a larger net with much more activity. Doing this required a lot of puzzling over Adapter and Airport Help documents (the Airport can be given a security passphrase, but the Adapter requires its hex equivalent - which is available via the Airport Admin Utility, although how is not mentioined in Airport Help - so it went, along with several aborted attempts that required resetting the Airport Base and starting over).
WEP will keep casual hackers out. It's possible to break it, but doing so requires eavesdropping on a fairly large volume of traffic. If you want to stay on the safe side, changing your keys monthly will probably foil any attempts unless you really move a lot of data across the wireless link. Right now there are so many networks around with no encryption at all that it's unlikely anyone will bother, unless there's something special about your network that makes it an attractive target. Hackers tend to go for the low-hanging fruit.
I won't worry until I see a van parked out front sporting antennas.... Since my Adapter has a Site Monitor function, I know there are no open wireless base stations in my vicinity. But still, is there any advice on setting the power level of the Base? The default is the maximum, 32 mw, but it can be dialed down, to be able to be less likely to be "sniffed". The Adapter monitor reported a "52%" power level before I closed the network and couldn't read that any more, but what does that mean? I get the impression that power level and packet transfer efficiency are related, but I wouldn't think that only 52% of the packets being transmitted between the Adapter and the Base are getting through.
I think the 52% is probably the signal level readout from the card, not an indication of packet loss -- kind of analogous to an S-meter reading on a radio receiver. A better indication might be the speed your network card is using. It will fall back to a slower speed if the signal gets too weak compared to the noise level. I'd use the lowest power level that gives you acceptable performance in the most distant location. (But then, I've always believed in the amateur radio credo of using the minimum amount of RF power necessary for communications.)
I've been hunting in these device interfaces for some readout of traffic rates, but can't find any. Is there a (Mac) utility that would show this? I think you are right about 52% being a signal level, although I'm a little surprised they put that function into the Adapter (which is the same thing as a network card, to keep our nomenclature clear, except not inside a computer but just on the network).
It's been years since I used a Mac, so I'm not sure where you'd find that information. Every wireless network device I've seen has some ability to measure signal strength. It's necessary anyway for several functions of the 802.11b protocol -- the ability to choose the closest access point on the network, for example. Since the capability is built into the card's radio modem, reporting it to the user as well isn't too difficult. Most cards I've seen have the ability to measure signal strength, noise level, and "link quality", though not all drivers report all of these values to the user.
Makes sense. Does a computer shift among nearby (open) access points if signal strength varies? (I wrote "open" as a user would have to specify the SSID and WEP Key to access my Base). I'm rather pleased how my network now functions. As I've said, I have two computers on a wired ethernet LAN and this network is hooked wirelessly into the Base Station, which is on Comcast's high speed internet access. For the first time my wife and I don't have to contend for time on the internet! "Modern Living".
I just discovered the "Network Utility" in OSX. This seems to be telling me a lot about the activity on differnt parts of my network - if I can figure out what the jargon means. I start with looking for a meaning for Ethernet Interface (fw0) [or en0], and Network Utility Help comes up with nothing for Interface, fw0 or en0. Who were they writing thost "Help" pages for? (And the Utility says "Link Speed" is 10 mb for en0 - which isn't a *speed*...) Sigh.....
Re resp:26: It depends on the network setup being done properly, but yes, it's possible to roam around and have the computer switch from one access point to another. This relies on the access points all being part of the same network, though. Automatic, seamless hand-offs from one network to another aren't possible because of the IP address and routing changes. Re resp:27: Okay, I don't know MacOS X, but I'll see if I can help you. fw0 and en0 are the names of interfaces. In BSD (which OS X is based on) devices traditionally get names in that format, where the two letters mean something about the type of the advice. For example, my FreeBSD system has two DEC ethernet cards, de0 and de1. (The de stands for DEC Ethernet, apparently.) A little Googling suggests that en0 is the Mac's ethernet interface, and fw0 is FireWire. "10 mb" probably means 10 megabits per second.
en0 is the built-in ehternet, and en1 is the Airport card. Assuming you have an airport card.
"ifconfig -a" is a useful command, in Terminal.
Does OS X have any equivalent of Linux's 'iwconfig' command, for displaying wireless-specific information?
From the System Profiler: AirPort: Interface: en1 Type: AirPort IP Address: 207.75.135.18 Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0 Broadcast Address: 207.75.135.255 Router Address: 207.75.135.5 DNS Servers: 172.22.22.27 Domain: wccnet.org Ethernet Address: 00:30:65:2a:16:7c From Network Utility: Hardware Address 00:30:65"2a:16:7c IP Address(es): 207.75.135.18 Link Speed 11Mb Link Status Active Vendor Apple Model Wireless Network Adapter (802.11) Sent Packets 3181 Send Errors 0 Recv Packets 54381 Recv Errors 0 Collisions 0
That computer has an Airport card. Mine doesn't.
You can get the same information for en0, the built-in ethernet, as for en1, the airport card. re 51: What sort of information does iwconfig provide?. The command iwconfig is not there, but the information may be somewhere.
Back to Comcast Modems, I heard that they they have problems with more than 15 computers on the ethernet network. Motorola says the modem works with up to 32 computers.
Re resp:33: I thought we were talking about a wireless network?
Right - my ethernet LAN (2 computers) connects wirelessly to the internet. Neither computer has an Airport card - the LAN has a wireless adapter, but its not an Airport card. The router, however, is an Airport base.
Oh, okay. In that case, you're not going to get signal strength information from your computer directly. You'll have to get it from the wireless bridge on the LAN. Maybe it has a built-in webpage you can look at?
It has a built-in webpage for configuring the SSID and security parameters but it only shows field strength if one configures the Airport base to transmit its SSID - which isn't adviseable. But I think you've put your finger on it - I can't have my pie and eat it too.
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