I want to be fairwitness of the language conference.  rcurl, one of the
current fairwitnesses, mentioned that he was going to forget an item that was
not in English, and linked it to language only after the promptings of another
user.  This is item 198 in Agora.  If a fairwitness of a language conference
is not even interested in other languages he should be replaced.  I volunteer
to replace rcurl as fairwitness of the language conference.

78 responses total.

So what you need to do is go to the language conference
and make your case to those who use the conference.  If
you get a lot of support then we go to step two.  I don't
really know what step two is because we've never, to my
memory, had that happen before.

I suspect you'll not be able to find much support.

I put in a suggestion to Rane on that item, because I suspected (correctly,
apparently) that he was asleep at the switch.  He promptly linked the item.
I see no evidence whatsoever in the discussion that he "is not even interested
in other languages", & there's quite a bit of evidence lying around to the
contrary.  Forgetting an item consisting, by intention, of discussion in a
language one doesn't know isn't, prima facie, evidence of much beyond
consciousness of a lack of unlimited time.

I suspect Mary's last sentence is entirely correct, but what do I know?

Well, my primary reason for volunteering to be FW or co-FW of that conference
is primarily because there isn't a large userbase of users reading that
conference, and I want to change that.  and if rcurl want's to stay on, that's
fine with me; the more the merrier.

Just out of curiousity, how would you propose to expand the use of that
conference?

I'm also curious about how you determine the number of people using it.

I also forgot the item in agora.  I will read it in the language cf.  There
is no need to read an item twice.  I always forget items in agora that have
been linked to another cf.  Does that mean that I should be removed as fw to
the cf's that I am fw in?  What a crock.

re 4
Backtalk has a way to determine the number of participants in a conference.

Specifically, to expand a conference, the best way is to advertise about it,
enter some new items (restarting the conference is a horrible way to revive
it) and spark some new interest in the older items.  I also plan on changing
both the backtalk (web) and command-line interface; specifically, simple
commands that users can type to get information (check out the UNIX conference
on m-net, probably the best example of this).  But those are the main ideas.

re 5 I also use the forget command to read items only once.  But the context
in which rcurl used the statement indicated that he wanted to forget the only
incident of the item (remember, it wasn't linked when he was about to forget
it) and therefore he wasn't interested in it.

As Mary indicated in resp:1, the first step would be to discuss your
proposals in the language conference.

Hmm.  Neither advertising a conference nor entering new items (or responses)
requires being FW.  Email to Rane, detailing suggestions for interface
changes, might get those and (if not mixed with your usual drivel) would
almost certainly be considered.

re 7 There is not an active userbase in the language conference currently.
I intend to create one.

re 8 Both your sentences lack any truth.

So you're saying that you are FW of coop, now?  You entered this item.

How  would you create "an active userbase" in language? 

My practice is to link items to language when some interest is shown.
either by me personally or by others. Anyone can make the suggestion
if I don't. But I agree this discussion should be in language, so I
will link it there.

re 10  I said nothing of the sort.  Going back to response #8, doing proper
advertising of a conference requires being a FW.  Also, the interface needs
work.  Please read response #6.  E-mailing suggestions might be done, as you
mentioned in that response, but I'm interested in things that actually happen.

re 11 Please read response #6.  Thanks for linking this item; I'll freeze the
one I created.

I don't agree the interface needs work.  What are your suggestions?

What do you consider "proper advertising"?  I've promoted specific conferences
more than once, and I've never been an FW on this system.

I would welcome active (and appropriate) participation from naftee in
the language conference, as well as specific suggestions for its
management. 

I, for one, fully support naftee's bid to coup d'etat rcurl (and his ass).

re 13 I've given some of my suggestions on interface improvement in response
#6 . To create those, I would have to be FW of the conference.  I would also
be able to link items that users such as rcurl would forget.  Additionally,
there are some cool things with backtalk which I'd like to explore more. 
Perhaps updating the web interface with hyperlinks.  These are very rough
ideas.

re 14 I would like to manage or co-manage it, it would be easier.  See above.

Yuo can help fw the international cf, naftee. I'd be happy to have you 
on board.

Response #6 speaks in generalities.  Which shortcuts do you think would
improved the language conference?

I'd be glad to implement any improvements in language if there is some
concensus they are desirable. Some of what naftee proposes in #6 concerns
the Backtalk interface: these would require staff approval and
implementation.  naftee can implement advertisement of the conference any
time he wants.  None of the things naftee suggested there requires FW
status. 

In regard to my saying that I was about to forget that Polish item (I had
not done it yet) before davel suggested the link, I was making a comment
*after* his suggestion, as a participant in agora. I couldn't read the
item and although it was in Polish, it wasn't about Polish.  Even if I did
forget the item for myself (that wasn't a foregone action), that would not
have interfered with anyone else's participation in the item, nor would it
have interfered with anyone sending me e-mail to suggest the link (this is
a common procedure anyway).  What hints were given that some participants
would prefer to exercise Polish in the language cf rather than in agora?

willcome, I think, in #15, brings up what may be the real issue.  I
referred to both naftee and willcome in the current agora as "jerks" for
some very jerk-like responses they entered. This issue smells a lot like a
counterattack.

I'd have to agree that Rane hasn't demonstrated any inadequacy as
a fairwitness in any of this.

I already said the same.  Rane's doing a fine job.

Re one point in #19: I don't use backtalk myself, Rane, but I suspect that
there are some FW-customizable things regarding that interface.  As you said,
naftee never said anything specific (beyond like-some-conference-on-Mnet),
so it's hard to know what he wants on this; but it probably is something that
wouldn't require staff intervention, at a wild guess.

Re. 19:  There are certain Backtalk features only an FW is allowed to use to
modify a conference.  (You should know that.)

What SHOULDN"T be allowed, however, is your nonsense accusation that I am
using this issue to "counterattack" you.  I don't really care who FWs the
conference, and I don't really care that you called me a jerk.  I think you
should apologise, whore.

Do we really want or need conferences on Grex to be "like-some-
conference-on-Mnet"?  They are 2 separate and different systems.  I 
like it that way and see no reason why they should resemble each other.

Xenophobe.

Apologize for what, willcome?

If any Backtalk features need to be changed/fixed, and an FW can do it,
I would be glad to. But I don't use Backtalk. My responsibility is
language, not Backtalk. 

I think you should apologise for accusing me of "[counterattacking]" you.

R. 25:  Unless one's FW of a conference, he can't very well be expected to
know which specific features are available; unless naftee's an FW, he can't
tell you, as an FW, to do.

 re 17 I'd love to help out with the international conference.

 re 18 For instance, a user could type 'hello' at the Ok: prompt, and 
it would show them what the word hello is in twelve different 
languages.  Stuff like that.

 re 19
 >Some of what naftee proposes in #6 concerns
  the Backtalk interface: these would require staff approval and
  implementation.

 You have no idea what you are talking about.  This is why another FW 
is needed.

 > I referred to both naftee and willcome in the current agora 
as "jerks" for some very jerk-like responses they entered. This issue 
smells a lot like a counterattack.

 Perhaps you did, but that's not the issue.

re 20 You don't participate in the language conference.  How are you 
to judge this?

re 21
>but it probably is something that
>wouldn't require staff intervention, at a wild guess.

Yes, that is the whole point of a fairwitness.

re 23
>Do we really want or need conferences on Grex to be "like-some-
conference-on-Mnet"?  They are 2 separate and different systems.  I 
like it that way and see no reason why they should resemble each other.

You've taken that quote entirely out of context.  I was making a 
comment on the interface of the conference, not the content.  In other 
words, you have nothing to fear.

re 25
>My responsibility is language, not Backtalk. 

Once again, this is why another FW is needed.  A fairwitness' 
responsibility is towards the conference.

Traditionally, FWs volunteer and are accepted because they will be fair
witnesses. One can always learn the computer stuff. One just asks, and
there is a lot of ready help available. It is not essentially a *technical*
position.

Read response #0.  My reasons for volunteering were originally not 
technical.  Rather, as 'untechnical' as one can get in an electronic 
BBS.

29: when are you gonna apologise?

Why should the interface(s) of Grex be like those of Mnet.  Again, 
they are different systems and should not look or feel the same.  
Difference is good.  Do you want all your friends' homes to look the 
same as yours and everyone else's.  It would get very boring very fast.

Why, then, do you support changing to OpenBSD?  That's more similar than SunOS
is to M-Net's interface, which, face it, is already virtually identical to
Grex's.  I don't see how adding useful features to conferences is going to
make them boring.

re 32  You have no idea what you're talking about.  Read my above responses.
In none of them did I mention I'd make the language conference look like a
conference on m-net.  Please drop that line of argument.

Adding features to Picospan isn't within a FW's capabilities.

That's actually not quite correct.

For the text interface the fw can define aliases of Unix commands for 
his conference, using (I think) the .cfrc file.  He can also cause 
other Unix commands to be executed for each user who enters the 
conference (though individual users have the capability of evading 
these commands).  I've heard of people using fw powers to prevent 
unwanted users from posting, having people logged out upon entering the 
conference, or making every response containing a code word appear to 
be personally directed toward the person joining the conference.

For the WWW interface, the fw can define links within the conference 
WWW page, and also define colors and background images for the 
conference.  (The Backtalk and Sports conferences here on Grex, and 
possibly others, use these capabilities.)

Hmm.  Thanks for the correction.

I plead guilty to the "code word" one.  The Mary Poppins filter,
used originally on M-Net, and once here as an April Fool joke.

Seriously, though, this capability of Picospan, as implemented, is
a security hole that ought to be plugged.

In any case, a user can exempt themselves from any FW changes by
putting the line "set nosource" in their .cfonce file.

I am skeptical that the changes proposed by naftee would have much
benefit.

re 38  Perhaps you are skeptical, but you (or ay other GreX user, for that
matter) have not given any reasons, good or otherwise, against me being FW
of the language conference.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss