Right then, I've got a new apartment (with a shitty little kitchen with an
electric stove, mutter mutter) and I desperately need a couple decent knives.
I'd like to invest in proper ones that'll last a while and really work well,
but I also don't want to get too extravagant.  Any advice?

56 responses total.

What's your budget?  I've got a couple Chicago Cutlery knives from my college
years, and they're still great.  Not incredibly expensive, either.

Define extravagant-- if you have the serious dough and can find the 
salesman, I heartily recommend Cutco. (I used to sell them, so I know 
a little bit about what makes a quality knife.)  Otherwise, anyone 
look at those Miracle Blade knives?  They any good?

Hmm... http://www.chicagocutlery.com and check out the "Walnut tradition"
line, which is sold all over the place.  I think that's what I've got.  An
8" chef knife shouldn't be more than $25.

My mom, who tends to abuse things like knives has had the same set of 
Cutco knives for over 35 years. I have some too. I like them but I am 
not a knife expert. I mostly bought them because my cousin was selling 
them. 

Damon's girlfriend loaned us a set of Cutco knives.  Since she has moved out
of our house I am going to have to give them back.  We will cry.

I like Cutco too.

I was a bit incorrect.  Staci won't cry, it was one of the Cutcos that did
in her hand.

"Proper knives" generally require a modest level of care from someone
who knows how to treat them...do you want to be bothered with this (and
learn if you're unfamiliar), or get something cheap you can abuse, 
ignore, and ditch?  If you're spreading peanut butter, slicing meatloaf,
opening grapefruits, etc., then "proper knives" are probably a waste.

I've got a set of those "Chicago / Walnut" knives & like 'em pretty well.
Like most decent knives, they're vastly cheaper to buy on sale in sets
(vs. individually).  However, sets on sale is a great way to wind up with
a load of extra knives that you have no use whatever for, and a fancy wood
block that is virtually impossible to keep clean & sanitary.

Unless you have a special need (carving up whole loaves of bread, fishes,
etc.), you probably only need two good knives - a paring knive (~3.5"
blade) and chef's knife (~8" blade).  If you're getting good ones, a
sharpening steel's the next priority, then maybe a "utility" knife (5"-
6" blade).  Well-stocked stores, of course, often carry *dozens* of shapes
& sizes in each of several lines of knives - the better to seperate the
"more dollars then sense" luxury shoppers from their money.  

Consumer Reports rates good knives occasionally...i've probably got it
around here somewhere if you care. 

You can go to cutco.com on the WWW to see their products, but they 
don't have a price list.  You can fill out an on-line form to have 
someone contact you about a demonstration, though.  You can request a 
catalog as well.

Might need a bread knife, which is actually one of the first you'd want to
spend real money on.

I'd go to a hardware store with a good kitchen section (like Ace Barnes in
Ann Arbor) and see what they've got.  Cheap paring knives are fine; that's
what I use.  A decent bread knife and a good 8-10" chef knife (I like 10";
most people find the 8" less threatening) is basically what you should look
for.

My two best knives I bought from a butcher in Goderich, Ontario, over 15
years ago.  I like 'em because I can abuse them by running them through
the dishwasher, storing them loose in the knife drawer, and generally
asking them to do pretty tough jobs, yet they sharpen beautifully, the
handles look like new, and there is not a spot of rust anywhere. 

A starter set would have to include a large chef knife for chopping, a
boning knife, a paring knife, a tomato knife and a bread knife.  Then a
set of steak knives. 

But my advice would be to talk to your butcher and find out what he/she
uses.  And buy those. 

I like the bread knife I got at Great Harvest; they sell the ones they use.

Re #11:  Don't butchers rent knives, like most commercial kitchens do?

The very second thing you should buy is the sharpening stone to keep them
useable.  I use a two-sided Arkansaw oil stone.  No matter how much you pay
for the knives, once they are dull it is your stone and your technique that
will keep them and you happy.  

My stone is about 1.75 x 6.5.  I've also had good luck with a Disston
vitrified aluminum oxide stone, bought at a hardware store.  

Paring knives:  i have the "good" paring knife that i use most of the
time & take care of.  And i've got a drug-store-cheapo paring knife or
two that i use for stuff like cutting up pans full of bar cookies and
scraping burned-of bits of food off of pans (abuses that don't much 
need a quality knife).

Special knives:  exist for bread, cheese, fish, tomatoes, carving (big
hunks of meat), etc.  Like coffee grinders, egg steamers, and turnip
twaddlers, they're a waste of money unless actually *used* frequently.
Most sources i've seen suggest that getting "good" specialty knives is
*not* a good investment.

Stone vs. steel:  my impression is that a stone can give better results,
but it takes more time & skill than the steel.  The latter works quite
well enough for me - but i don't give my good knives abuse that would
take a stone to repair, either.

A steel is for touch-up.  Once in a while you need to use a stone to actualy
resharpen, though.

But I wouldn't buy a stone, if I was Dan.  He'll probably be working in big
kitchens with the occasional stone, if he continues in the direction of being
a chef.

Local "good knife stores" charge $1 to sharpen a knife, $2 if it's a bread
knife (odd-shaped edge -> more hassle).  For a home cook who takes care of
his small number of good knives, very occasional small sharpening payments
seem more reasonable than buying/learning/using a stone.

Either my Chicago/Walnut knives *really* hold an edge, or the steel does
have some sharpening ability, too.

I learned to use a stone to keep my pocket knife sharp ;when I was 7 years
old.  Not rocket science or motor skill challenging.  My paring knife gets
sharpened about once every 6 -8 weeks if it is in daily use.  The first time
I have to use the tip to pierce a tomato skin, rather than just sliding the
blade across it, out comes the stone.  

Odd.  I can keep a knife up to tomato-skin-sharpness for *years* with
only the steel.

Ah, I don't use the steel.

I think the role of the steel is to straighten out the edge.  With a really
sharp knife the edge will actually be a little floppy, so a properly-wielded
steel* will straighten it.

*Not sure I can easily describe the correct steel technique, but it's less
like using a stone than most people seem to think.  And it should really only
be done once or twice per side.

I've read a long description of knife care by an author who *really* got
into such things.  He advocated brief use of the steel in "straighten out
the bent cutting edge" mode virtually every time you pick up a knife, and
actual sharpening by a professional once or twice a year.

The dinky manual for my Chicago/Walnut knives suggests using the steel in
that "straighten edge" mode extremely frequently, sharpening with the steel
(same steel, different method) regularly, and honing (different tool *and*
method) occasionally/as needed.  Using the proper (their brand) steel and
hone, of course.

I make regular use of the steel, but probably should invest $5 in getting
my knives actually sharpened in the next year or two.

On another aspect of knife care - the Chicago/Walnut knives have genuine
wood handles - either you slather 'em with mineral oil when the wood gets
looking rather gray, or they break and you're SOL.

Scott -- I haven't been headed "in the direction of being a chef" for a while
now, actually.  I decided to go back and finish my BA after all; so I could
be working in a kitchen sometime in the future, but probably not in the near
future, and maybe not at all.  

Mary -- What's the difference between a tomato knife and a paring knife?

Both of the co-ops I lived in subscribed to knife-sharpening services, and
got a few of their good knives regularly sharpened.  If a buck or two will
get me the same treatment that those knives got, I'd consider it money well
spent.  (Then again, there's a certain amount of kitchen-geek pride in knowing
how to sharpen your own...)

I'm sort of wary of wood handles.  Do they have any advantage over plastic
handles?

A tomato knife is simply a smaller version of a bread knife.
It has a serrated edge.  It wouldn't be the first knife I'd
buy but I sure would miss having one.

Tomato knives i've seen have the scalloped edge of a bread knive, but
they're not at all straight & heavy like a bread knife - instead very
thin & curved backward.  Probably lots of clever carving & sculpting
can be done if you're dexterious.

I like the feel & look of wood handles better.  By *some* accounts, they
are a less friendly home for germs.  (Texturing plastic enough to give
it a good grip also makes it harder to spot/remove any tiny bits of food
(aka germ heavens).)  They seem to take heat better than *most* plastics 
would (i do odd things at times).  Compared to the blade edge, wood knife
handles are very low maintenance.  Good knives ain't supposed to go in
the dishwasher anyway.  

Well, *my* tomato knife isn't curved and it does resemble a small 
bread knife.  Which is a good thing 'cause I'm not from Dexter. ;-)

By the way, it's cool you're thinking of being a professional chef.

And for those you of you just can't get enough information about my 
tomato knife...

http://209.35.185.42/ShopSite/
RH_Forschner_Victorinox_Cutlery_40506.html

Except mine doesn't have that little fork-thingie at the end.  Just 
a rounded tip.  Mine is maybe 15 years old.  Anyhow, I like this 
brand a lot.  It takes abuse, comes back for more, and is 
reasonably priced.  

I'd like to get their 8" chef's knife.

And now let's try that URL without the bloody line break:

http://209.35.185.42/ShopSite/RH_Forschner_Victorinox_Cutlery_40506.html

I always thought you a little sinister, Mary.  ;)

What is the forked tip for?

BTW, it looks like "PremiumKnives.com" will work in place of the IP address:

http://premiumknives.com/ShopSite/RH_Forschner_Victorinox_Cutlery_40506.htm
l

Apparently wood is a less likely place for bad stuff (salmonella specifically,
probably other things as well) to survive.  I recall hearing that wooden
cutting boards were preferable for that reason.

My Chicago Cutlery stuff needs the mineral oil on the handles, but it's really
not that big a deal.  When new the wood was dry & unfinished, so I was advised
(this is when I had a summer job in a big resort kitchen) to wrap the handles
in an oil-soaked rag when stored.  After a few days there was plenty of oil
soaked in.  And as long as you aren't just throwing the knives into the
dishwasher you don't have to add more oil very often.

Note:  food-grade mineral oil is fairly widely sold for preserving wooden
knife handles, cutting boards, etc.  Using food-type oils can get you into
problems like "rancid".

Julie got a Cutco catalog in the mail: we were quite happy as we lost 
our paring knife and pizza cutter (in my opinion, they make the best 
pizza cutter out there-- super sharp and the circular blade is 
removable for cleaning).  I noticed they have a cheese cutter now-- 
which I think is really nice.  It's a large 5" blade with a Micro-D 
edge (a variation of their Double-D, which is a marked improvement on 
a standard serrated edge), is perforated to stop the cheese from 
sticking, and has a curved tip at the edge for spreading.  It's got 
big holes in the blade and is kind of triangular shaped.

Oh, and apparently you *can* order online: www.cutco-online.com

Well, now, cheese.  That isn't a knife thing, usually.  That's a thin wire
garrote-type thing.  

I know-- that's why I like what Cutco is offering.  Those thin wire 
garrote-type thingies usually break and aren't terribly sharp.  The 
Micro-D edge (Double-D variant) is hand cut and I know it will be 
sharp, having used Double-D edged Cutco knives.  We might not get this 
particular knife right away, but I would like to have it.

I find that the drag on the blade of any knife going through cheese is too
frustrating.  I often use the little "blade in the flat part" European cheese
shaver for hard cheese, but the garrote is better for softer ones.  

perhaps that is what the holes and the Double-D (essentially, an edged 
sawtooth) are for.  Have you looked at this particular knife?  
Otherwise, I know precisely what you mean.

I wound up following my mom's advice and getting Henckel's knives, since those
are the brand she's had for years.  I've used them enough at home to know that
I like them, and they were a bit cheaper than Chicago knives.  (After I got
home from the store, I got into a conversation with my roommate in which I
found out that he used to sell Cutco knives.  Apparently they're
*everywhere*.)

I've compared with Henckel.  When I have the dough, I'd rather do 
Cutco.  I like 'em.

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