#84 of 95 by C. S. McGee (cmcgee <bio?login=cmcgee>) on Sun Nov 17 
18:54:58 2002: 
you are a wealthy woman playing at living in poverty, and you have 
chosen to live very simply. most people here have refrained from trying 
to convince you to make a different choice. it would be nice if you 
would give us the same respect. Please treat other people's perceptions 
and choices as _valid_for_them_. no matter how many times you repeat 
yourself, you are not changing anyone's mind. 


#87 of 95 by C. Keesan (keesan <bio?login=keesan>) on Mon Nov 18 
13:59:18 2002: 

Off on a tangent now, responding to one of Colleen's more puzzling 
statements. I do consider myself rich compared to most of the world. I 
have a South Indian penpal making $80 a month as a programmer, who 
shares a room with four other professionals. They moved last year from 
a room in a house without 'sweet water' (they washed in salt water?) to 
one without much ventilation or a place to hang laundry. I on the other 
hand can afford my own apartment, with unlimited fresh water, as well 
as a half-built house. I don't consider this to be living in poverty 
even by American standards, which define poverty as earning less than 
about $15,000 a year for two people (which is roughly what it costs to 
support two of us in three locations including a hefty chunk for health 
insurance). I am puzzled as to why she thinks I am 'wealthy' 
and 'playing at living in poverty'. Perhaps this should be another item 
in another conference. Poverty is in many cases more related to 
attitude and education than to actual income/expenditures. 

#88 of 95 by S. Lynne Fremont (slynne <bio?login=slynne>) on Mon Nov 18 
14:21:34 2002: 
I wanna hear all about your financial situation, keesan, but that is 
just because I am nosey. 


#89 of 95 by C. Keesan (keesan <bio?login=keesan>) on Mon Nov 18 
15:25:59 2002: 
Rent $6000/year, property taxes $1200 plus $2400 (after rebate), food 
for two
$800-1200 a year (including 400 lb of citrus), three sets of utility 
bills
but Jim's housemate is paying his this year, health insurance for two 
about
$1600/year (very high deductible and we try not to get sick), dental 
bills
variable at least $500/year.. The $1200 figure includes eating in 
restaurants
once in a while.  Do you want a breakdown of electricity, phone, water,
internet?  Miscellany (gifts, clothing, furniture, appliances, travel,
transportation) about $300.  Housebuilding expenses also variabl 
depending
how much we get done (up to $1000 per year).  Utilities at all three 
places
come to maybe $1000/year including long distance and internet.  This 
all adds
up to about $15,000 - if Jim gets rent it comes out lower.  If the 
house is
ever built it should save about $4000/year in housing costs.  I hope, 
slynne,
that you really meant 'all about' and I am not boring you.  We have 
chosen
not to do our own dental work.  We don't have computer expenses except 
for
registering shareware.  We get our bikes for free.  We trade bikes and
computers and things to farmers for food - tonight Jim is filling an ink
cartridge in exchange for onions and squashes.  I will go look up the 
official
poverty level income.


#90 of 95 by C. Keesan (keesan <bio?login=keesan>) on Mon Nov 18 
15:36:58 2002: 
Official year 2000 US poverty level varies between states (Alaska and 
Hawaii
are higher) but is about $9000 for one adult living along and $12000 
for one
adult living with one child.  If you split $15,000 two ways I guess we 
average
out $7,500 each on expenses which is less than $9000 each, but if you 
add $4000
rent it is $9,500 each, or clearly above poverty level (assuming that I 
am
earning, post-tax, what I am spending, and earnings are also variable 
between
years but average out about that).  
Is there an official Ann Arbor poverty level that takes our high rents 
into
account?

#91 of 95 by S. Lynne Fremont (slynne <bio?login=slynne>) on Mon Nov 18 
16:10:20 2002: 
I didnt actually expect you to disclose your financial situation but, 
as I said, I *am* nosey so I dont find it boring at all. 


I know that a person earning minimum wage who works 40 hour weeks gets 
around $10,000 year. I once tried to live on an income like that (it 
was less though because I only earned $3.35/hr and didnt work 40 hours 
every week). And yes, I found that it is much cheaper to eat beans than 
it is to eat steak and it is cheaper to ride one's bike to work than it 
is to drive. I have to say though that that lifestyle made me 
miserable. I am less healthy now but more happy. 

#92 of 95 by C. Keesan (keesan) on Mon Nov 18 17:07:13 2002: 
So when do we get the details of YOUR current financial situation, Ms. 
Nosey?
;)

#93 of 95 by John Ellis Perry Jr. (jep) on Mon Nov 18 17:14:43 2002: 
I think the financial disclosures are interesting but not the purpose 
of this item.

 #94 of 95 by Joseph M Saul (jmsaul) on Mon Nov 18 18:14:45 2002: 
I agree, but I feel compelled to point out that Sindi's only told us 
what she
spends, not how much she and Jim bring in.  For all we know, cmcgee has
evidence that they're stashing $150K per year under their futon or 
something.

I can see where cmcgee is coming from -- keesan does sound like that
sometimes.  I've chosen to interpret her posts as just being socially 
clumsy
discussions of her own practices and lifestyle, without any real hope 
or even
intention of trying to get us to emulate her.

#95 of 95 by John Ellis Perry Jr. (jep) on Mon Nov 18 18:26:15 2002: 
It's great but this is the cooking conference.  If we have to discuss 
Sindi's (very interesting) finances, I hope we can at least do so in a 
different item.  I will enter one.

18 responses total.

This item is for the discussion of Sindi's finances which started in 
Valerie's discussion of her invented recipes.

I have spent time with Jim and Sindi, and seen no indications of hidden 
wealth.  I haven't looked for them either, of course.

From Sindi's description, I at least spend several times as much as she 
and Jim combined.  I don't apologize for that.  I make money and spend 
it on my priorities.  I hold that to be my right.  I don't know whether 
I make as much as they do, or have as much (money) as they do.  Why 
would I care about that?  Other than the tendency toward nosiness which 
I share with slynne.

I'll say this, though, when I've gone there to exchange property, it's 
almost always been so I can acquire some of theirs.  I don't apologize 
for *that*, either.  They've freely offered, and thus enabled me to 
save money I would otherwise have spent.  That was my goal, not 
theirs.  Their goal was to avoid adding to landfills.  Our goals 
coincided.  It's been the basis for several of what I believe and hope 
were mutually satisfactory exchanges between us.

I think it's evident that Jim and Sindi could make money if they wanted 
to do that.  Maybe they have a big stash somewhere.  Maybe I'll cart it 
off by mistake sometime when I only meant to pick up an elderly 
computer or another TV, or something.  That's a pleasant fantasy, I 
suppose.

Jim has found nickels and things in computers, but i don't know of any way
a kid could stick them into a TV.  (We do have a TV that someone returned to
us if you do want another one - Jim picked it up and replaced the cord when
some recent immigrants asked for one).  Since this is the cooking conference,
not a conference on finances, perhaps we could use this item to talk about
how much money people spend on food and eating, and ways to save money on
food, and other food-related topics?

Sindi is making money translating.  Jim is supposedly building a house.  Once
in a while someone insists on paying him for something.  We both enjoy not
having to put in 40 hours a week making money that we have to pay to other
people to do things for us that we would rather do for ourselves, like grow,
collect, preserve, and prepare food.  Some people probably prefer to pay other
people to do all this for them.  We like our own cooking. We like supporting
local farmers.  We like not having to go shopping in cold weather.
We spend extra for organic food.

I spend way to much money on prepared foods. I would rather spend the 
money on a cook but that is even *more* money. I guess I just need to 
marry someone who likes to cook or something :) I like to cook when the 
mood strikes me but that isnt very often. Even when I want to save 
money, I end up eating things like pasta (although lately I have gotten 
whole wheat pasta from the coop) because they dont take a lot of effort 
to prepare. I am in the canned beans club for this reason. 

See, you should have married me.

Can we have a canned bean clubhouse?  And, like, a secret canned bean
handshake?

and a secret password, like, Hambone makes it better.

I know I should have married you, furs! I still want to have your 
babies but, if I did, I would probably feed them *canned* beans. 

I will use this item to post a few recipes based on dried beans or bean flour.
First, you can buy gram (chickpea) flour at the Indian food store on Broadway
near where they closed Kroger's and CVS.  The bag gives a recipe for tempura
batter - mostly gram and some rice flour.  We substituted sweet potato flour
or cornmeal - anything without gluten.  Add water, and it mixes up very easily
without the lumps you get with wheat flour and egg recipes, and you can dip
vegetables in it for frying.  You can also chop up the vegetables and make
vegetable pancakes with the mixture of batter and vegetables.  Onions, celery,
carrots, other things that cook slowly as the chickpea flour should be cooked
slowly for 10-15 minutes.

Another use for chickpea flour is in potato pancakes.  Grate the potatoes,
add a lot of chopped onions and if you like also carrots, rutabaga, etc for
flavor.  Do not drain and squeeze out the liquid as you won't be adding liquid
in the form of egg.  Instead add enough chickpea flour to get the consistency
needed to make pancakes.  They taste identical to the wheat flour and egg
variety of pancakes (like greasy fried potatoes and onions) and are much
easier to make.

Falafel:  soak dried chickpeas or fava beans overnight.  Set up a 'meat'
grinder.  I had to use the counter as the table was too thick, and pull out
the drawer in order to attach the grinder to the counter top, and then close
the drawer part way so the handle would turn, and the liquid generated during
grinding leaked out the bottom and tried to get into the drawer but I wrapped
a dishtowel around the base of the grinder as a diaper.  If you do use a
table, put a container on the floor under the grinder.

Chickpeas are much easier to grind and come out ground finer.  I could not
find an easy way to remove the skins from our Chinese fava beans.

Mix in water and flour (high-gluten flour worked well, rye flour less well)
and knead with your hands, shape into 2" wide 1/2" high patties and fry in
shallow oil with a cover on the cast iron frying pan. Turn occasionally.
Almost forgot, I added a lot of chopped onions, fresh-ground cumin, and
zatar (mixture of thyme and sesame seeds from Jerusalem Market).

These smalled and tasted just like falafel except that we left out the salt
so they were a lot more edible.  Ours were probably also less greasy.

Soaked fava beans can also just be fried slowly until they turn soft, or fried
even longer to turn crunchy.  The crunchy sort are sold dry in packages at
the Chinese food store but they are very salty and somewhat stale and heavy
on the garlic.  


I cannot think of any way to use canned chickpeas or favabeans for falafel
- you need the discrete little hard chunks to be authentic.  I don't know what
they do to the mixes other than add a LOT of salt but they don't taste as good
and are certainly not as fresh.  (Our beans are alive until we grind them up).

That all sounds very yummy. I will have to remember to try that 
chickpea flour veggie batter recipe in Feb when I have my houseguest 
who doesnt eat wheat. 

just for the rec indian programmers that are of some good earn around 30K to
40K a fresher makes around 10K (just out of engineering/college). This varies
but if some one is earnong less than 10000/Rupees 222USD he is incredibly
incompetent! I used to be a indian programmer some time back just out of
college..my starting was around 30KRupees take home..which is pretty good..
It's a lot cheaper as well in india..so..and im snarf..jennyc is just a account
i use when i want great tech support on IRC..

Can you, being a good programmer, change your browser settings to 80 columns,
please, so that those limited to that width can read your posting without
the lines wrapping (they are 20 columns too long)?  Thanks for the info.

set col=130

I don't see how set col=130 is going to make response 12 80 col wide, which
is the only possibility for my monitor, and which is default for other people
as well.

puTTY will let you stretch your window in M$ Windows

I do not use Windows, or windows.  I use DOS or else linux CLI.  My monitor
does not offer any choice of number of columns and I am not going to switch
monitors and number of columns to read an occasional response in which people
post in more than 80 columns.  Smaller text is harder to read.

I agree.  I used to log in using 40 columns and 16 rows.

Response not possible - You must register and login before posting.

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