Since I'm too sick to go to the football game, it seems like it's a good
 opportunity for me to enter my guaranteed-no fail turkey recipe in time 
 for Thanksgiving, so here it is again.  Remember - make sure to read 
 the whole thing through at least once before you get started.  Also, this
 recipe includes instructions for stuffing and gravy, but the stuffing 
 recipe makes a LOT of stuffing, feel free to cut it down to size if you are
 feeding less than the National Guard of Michigan.

        TO BEGIN WITH:
        --------------
 
        If frozen, thaw 2-3 days in refrigerator (or on back porch, if it's   
        cold out and the dog is tied up.
 
        DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING:
        ------------------------
 
        Remove giblets (those gross looking things wrapped in paper, found
        inside the turkey, generally)  trim any fat and simmer giblets in
        good sized saucepan with celery *tops*, one medium or large onion
        (chopped), 1/2 bayleaf, 3-4 garlic cloves (minced).  Simmer at 
        *least* three hours.  Cool, strain it, saving the giblets ONLY.
        (Trash the veggies)  Refrigerate overnight.  Next day (Thanksgiving)
        remove and discard congealed fat.  Chop giblets and set aside.
        (all this except fat will go into gravy)

 
        THANKSGIVING DAY:
        -----------------
 
        *GET UP EARLY*
 
        Rinse bird thoroughly by flushing cold water through the breast cavity,
        and pat dry with a paper towel.  You *may* want to salt the cavity, 
        that's pretty much up to individual taste preferences.

        Stuff bird in stomach and breast cavities (not too tightly).  Close
        with turkey pins, string, glue, duct tape... whatever. ( :-)  )
        Rub *bottom* (of bird, that is) with soft butter.  Careful now,
        that sucker gets SLIPPERY!  Place breast (top) up on rack in a
        roaster.  Cover bird with cheesecloth or other clean, thin, white
        cloth, tucking in to cling to the bird all the way down.  Should be
        2-3 layers thick if cheesecloth, 1 layer if any other cloth.  Brush
        or pour about 1/4 to 1/3 cup of melted butter on bird through the
        cloth.
 
        Roast uncovered (except for cloth) @ 300 degrees - and allow 25
        minutes per pound.  (Or 20 minutes per pound @ 325 degrees, if you
        *must* hurry it)
 
        Baste with juices from pan every 30 minutes.  Do *NOT* remove cloth -
        this is what browns the turkey perfectly, but never too much, nor
        too dry.
 
        You can use a meat thermometer if desired (although not necessary)
        Stick in fleshiest part of the leg - NOT touching the bone.  Turkey
        should go to 180-185 degrees or so.
 
        REMOVE CLOTH  (this is important - cheesecloth is not at ALL
        good Thanksgiving fare, being rather tough and stringy)
 
        Remove to a big platter or pan and plan to let cooked bird "set"
        outside the oven for at *least* 20 minutes before carving.  This
        is the time to remove the stuffing.  Also is helpful to put any
        feline type observers in the basement, as they will likely be
        climbing up your legs at this point.
 
        MEANWHILE - IT'S GRAVY TIME
        --------------------------- 
 
        Pour all possible fat ONLY off pan drippings.  Save 3-4 tablespoons
        of fat.  Leave dark brown drippings in pan.
 
        Pour 3-4 cups of giblet broth (what you made yesterday) into pan
        drippings.  Heat to simmer on top of stove, stir and scrape well.
 
        Mix 3 tablespoons of fat, and 3 tablespoons of flour in large frying
        pan, bring to simmer, stirring constantly - cook 2-3 minutes until
        thickened.
 
        Gradually add broth/drippings liquied, stirring constantly.  This 
        will get VERY THICK at first, but keep adding & stirring to desired
        thickness (when broth/drippings are gone, use rest of giblet broth
        as needed)
 
        Check if needs additional salt or pepper (TASTE it first!) add the
        chopped giblets from yesterday and simmer on low about 5 minutes.
        Keep hot until served.
 
        Last, but never least - persuade some other poor slob to carve the
        turkey.
 
 
        NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT STUFFING
        -----------------------------
 
 
        Here is what you'll need:
 
        3 cups diced onion              3 cups diced celery
        1 1/2 cups melted butter        15-20 cups VERY DRY (stale)
                                         bread cubes - plain, white. **
        1 1/2 teaspoon salt             3/4 teaspoon pepper
        3 tablespoons Rubbed Sage       6 cups of chicken broth
                                               OR
                                        6 bouillon cubes mixed with
                                        6 cups of water
 
 
        NOTES:
        ------
 
        I cut up bread 2-3 days ahead of time and let it stand - tossing
        now and then.  The dryer the bread, the better the stuffing.
     
        ** Lately Pepperidge Farms and other companies have been packaging
           seasoned "stuffing bread cubes" - though it originally offended
           my sensibilities to purchase prepared bread cubes, I have tried
           them and found them to be very good.  You might want to go that
           route rather than drying your own.  In which case, 1 to 1 1/2
           large bag will do the trick.

        If you use bouillon cubes - DO NOT ADD ANY SALT!
 
        Saute onion, celery, seasonings in butter until tender, pour over
        bread cubes and toss.  Add broth/bouillon and toss lightly but
        thoroughly.  CHILL BEFORE STUFFING BIRD
 
        Bake any excess stuff separately, adding broth and/or pan drippings
        (if you STILL have any left over) to add flavor.
 

50 responses total.

I can only recommend this recipe, it worked excellent for me.

This is now agora item 65 and kitchen item 17.

The Holiday Season has now officially begun.

   Yup.  Its begun, and what I consider to be a part of the electronic
version of the holidays has been entered.  This ranks about with watching
"The Bishop's Wife" each year.  Thanks, Meg.

I tried this for the first time last Thanksgiving and it worked for
me (except the gravy, which I *always* have problems with and I left
up to my Mother-in-Law).  Recommended.

For years now I have been cooking "the bird" breast side down so the fat from
the dark meat bastes the white meat and keeps it moist.  That, in addition
to buying a fresh, not frozen bird has resulted in superlative results.
Remember, its safer to cook the stuffing outside the bird and keep it there.
(Before it enters your abdominal cavity, that is.)

That's no doubt true, but neither I nor my mother have poisoned anybody
yet.  At least not at Thanksgiving.

   Ya know, anything that can survive being in an oven for several
*hours* at 325+ degrees isn't going to be deterred much of anything.
Put the stuffing back in the bird.  It probably makes more sense to
remove the stuffing *after* its been cooked; that way you don't
have a cavity made of meat with another source of food for all the
little bacteria to munch on.  But not cook it in the bird?  No Way.

We cook half in the bird, and half in a casserole: we like stuffing.
And (since I've joined this thread), I add all the stock to the
flour/fat mix at once (ratio of 2 tbs flour + 2 tbs fat, and then 1
cup stock), and then bring it to simmer slowly while stirring. It never
gets excessively thick with a chance to burn.

Re #8:  Yep.  *Cooking* it in the bird is okay, but remove it immediately
        the bird is done.

Well, inside the bird, the temps don't get quite that high.  Last time I left
the stuffing inside as well, and it made me sick.  I was wondering about the
issue, but then everybody I knew cooked it that way too.  Now I know better.

Exactly!
Ever notice how many days it takes a turkey to defrost?
It takes a long time for a turkey to get heated through, too.

I've *never* had or heard or anyone having a problem with stuffing cooked
inside a bird.  I guess you learn something every day...

My wife suggested that there might be a problem if the bird is not 
thoroughly washed out inside, before stuffing: salmonella, and all that.
Like Steve, though, I had never heard of anyone having a problem with
stuffing cooked inside. Just maybe, Steve, you *haven't* learned
something ;->.

Does anyone care to explain heat transfer?

Sure - I'm teaching it this term - what would you like to know? "You
press the first valve down, and the calories go around....."

<chortle>

I know it allright, all you need to explain is in simple terms, how the
temparature is distributed when you have a cold mass wrapped into layers of
other material that is 'suspended' in air.  Air supplies the heat.
It goes a long way to the center.

(That's what they make meat thermometers for...)

That will tell you when the inside is warmed up, OK, but not help it warm
up any faster.  (If I understand & remember, salmonella is OK if you get
it hot enough to actually kill the bacteria, whereas botulin bacteria
produce toxins that need a lot of heat & oxygen to destroy & hang around
even after the bacteria are long dead.  So both parts may be a problem.)

Also, we are talking about the temperature in the stuffing.  When the bird
starts heating up, its raw blood will drain into the stuffing.  No problem
if it gets hot enough, however, there is a high chance that spots will
remain where it doesn't get hot enough.  So the bad stuff makes it way to
the other parts from there in the next hours/days.  Salting the cavities
might help a little but I am not sure about that.

The stuffing doesn't even have to get half as hot as the oven to kill the
salmonella bacteria.  Your biggest salmonella problems come from
placing the cooked bird on the counter or dish where you prepared the
uncooked bird, without properly sanitizing it first.  (The counter or dish;
not the turkey. :)

Worries of botulism from turkey?  What do you do?  Let it sit out for a few
days?

To make the problem more tractible, assume the turkey is a sphere. This
reduces it to a previously solved problem. One need only determine the
Biot, and read a Gurnie-Lurie Chart to obtain the Fourier Modulus, and
calculate the time to reach the desired center temperature. Just ask any
of my students. I don't think either Biot or Fourier wrote the November
Mysterious Quote.

   Thank you Rane--Grex is the only place on Earth where a discussion of
Turkey could reasonably include the mention of a Fourier Modulus.
 
    ;-)

Over the Turkey today, and after seeing some of one parade or another, we
wondered how the parade got into Thanksgiving. When, where and why was
the first one, or at least the one that got the whole thing rolling?

Just a guess, but it was probably the Macy's parade. The why, of course,
was to get folks to do their Christmas shopping at Macy's.

Re #22: Of course not, is that what you do?

        I carve everything off the same day and put in rubbermaid boxes into
        the fridge.

I cooked the stuffing outside this time, and it tasted even better.

I grew up on the Macy"s parade (and Macy's Santa Claus), as did my wife
(we are New Yorkers, if you hadn't guessed from my accent), but what would
have prompted even Macy's to mount a hugh extravaganza on Thanksgiving,
unless there was some precedent, perhaps rooted in the parades held on
various saints' days, such as Shrove Tuesday? Carve Thursday? What does
the parade *celebrate*?

I actually like stuffing cooked outside the turkey better myself.

well, i've never heard of anybody having a problem with stuffing cooked in-
side the bird, either, and i myself ran that in(cr)edible risk twice this
weekend (rather happily, too) and managed to live. a bird typically gets
cooked at what, about 425 degrees? seems to me that, as aaron said, even
making half that temperature should kill any thanksgiving-spoiling bac-
teria.

by the way, neither biot nor fourier wrote the november mysterious quote
item.

i liked the stuffing prepared inside the bird, myself. i had two batches
cooked separately (one wednesday, one thursday) inside two birds and one
batch cooked outside (wednesday) that was also mighty good. but inside
was wonderful.

I dunno, our bird gets cooked at 300 degrees for 25 minutes per pound,
and the meat thermometer says 180, which is as its sposed to be.  The
highest I've ever cooked a turkey was 325, in order to shorten the time
a tad, but mostly I'd rather cook it way long and way slow at 300.  Never
poisoned anyone yet.

You are measuring the temperature at the meat of the bird.  The the heat has
more of a way to go into the stuffing.  Would be interesting to observe the
temperature in the stuffing.

I tried Amish Turkey this time.  It had a lot less fat dripping, and tasted
well.

Did any Grex'er make it through cooking the Thanksgiving turkey and
stuffing without remarking on the stuffing in/stuffing out discussion?
I know we hashed it over a bit.  We did half the stuffing in and half
out, therefore we only got half as sick (ha ha).  Actually, we survived
with no illness whatsoever (detectable from symptoms, that is).  And
I'd agree with :31 (meg) on the temperature...at least, we cooked our
bird at 325 F. and the meat thermometer read 180 F. when the little
plastic popper timer popped finally.  The turkey was done and quite
juicy; everyone loved the stuffing.  Anyway, thanks for the marvelous
debate on stuffing...gave us something to worry about besides when the
turkey would get done...  ;)

Everything that goes into my stuffing is at room temp when I start to make it.
I saute the onions and celery in butter and mix them in with the bread and
spices.  This raises the temp of the stuffing to more than room temp.  It
immediately goes into the bird (what doesn't fit in bird goes into another 
pan) and bird immediately goes into oven.  I start it at 450 for about 15-30
min (seals in the juices), and lower it to 300-325 til done.

Having half the stuffing in the bird is a good idea as well, since it is
going to be eaten right away, not to be left over.

oops, mea culpa. the c. 400 temperature was for a chicken, not a turkey.
one night was chicken, the next was turkey. sorry 'bout that.

All this discussion of food poisoning makes me glad i ate stuffed squash
instead of stuffed turkey!!

Re 35: I haven't personally experimented with heating meat to seal in the
juices, but my book about the chemistry of cooking says that it's a myth.
The book says that starting at a high heat doesn't seal anything in; only
dries out the meat.  However, last time i mentioned that the book said that
i nearly started a religious holy war, so maybe it's a Bad Idea that i'm
even raising the topic here.

After four days of Turkey (2 of stuffing) I am finally sick and tired of
it.  Tonight, we will have turkey enchiladas and then. . .no more turkey,
at least until Christmas.  It appears that any leftover turkey I have expands
in my refrigerator.  I even froze a batch.  Valerie, do you still want my
homemade minestrone recipe?  At this point, it would taste much better than
*turkey.*

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss