The rest of the items in this conference will show you the
variety of topics that we discuss here on Grex.  These items
will be linked over from the many other conferences available
here.

Remember that you can type "help conferences" at the Ok: prompt
to get a listing of all the conferences, and then use the "join"
command to go to that conference.  For example, "join music"
will take you to the Music conference.  If you see an item here
that interests you, you should go to the conference that item
is in, to see many more items with the same general topic.

It is our hope that this Intro conference will show you the
variety and depth of the Grex conferences, and will convince
to take part in the many discussions we have here.

If you have any questions relating specifically to the Intro
conference, you should put them in this item by typing
"respond" at the "Respond or pass?" prompt below.

139 responses total.

I like your selection of items, Rob.

I think this conference could be an excellent way for new users to 
begin experienceing conferencing. Thanks for setting this up Rob.

What't the best way to get a *COMPLETE* rundown on all there is to know 
about Picospan?  I want to capture it in *one* file so I can print it out 
and study it, refer to it, later.  Item 2 here is good but not complete.  
"help intro" ditto.  I could go through each help item seperately but 
then my file is full of extra garbage like prompts.  Isn't there one 
master guide or man page or something?  Picospan seem powerful but I find 
it a bit confusing, non-intuitive, to really use it to the fullest.  And 
the help system's the same, bits and pieces in different places.

I don't know of a master guide.  I think capturing bits from the help
system might be the best you can do, for a comprehensive guide.  The
most important ones for basic commands, in my opinion, are 
"help morecommands," "help misc," and typing "help" at a respond or
pass prompt, although like you said, the info is scattered about in
many different places.

read

Once someone told me how to download the contents of an item (the humour item
on Agora into my directory so I could send it to someone by mail (I know I
should have just used the 'read' function in Pine).

My question is : How can I find out the filename of a particular item?

Thanks for the help!

The "extract" command is actually easier than finding the file of an item.
(Though if you want to find the file, conferences are in the /bbs directory,
and the current agora conference is #17, so item 12 would be in
/bbs/agora17/_12).  To use the extract command, type 
"!extract agora 12 >filename", and that will put agora item 12 into a file
called "filename."  You can also extract specific responses, like say
"!extract agora 12 50-60 >filename" would list just responses 50-60.

Welcome to Grex, manickam!

Rob, you are cycling items in and out of intro at a very fat pace.  I
think it would work fine if the pace were slowed. One object would be to
not have you "burn out" too fast. More practically, though, a point is to
try to have new users not stay here very long, but find their own "home"
cf. If there is a new show here every week, they might just want to stick
around. If you are going to just keep 3 items in the show, perhaps change
one every two weeks, or so? I also think that a couple more shows could be
run at the same time. With four, one changing every two weeks, you'd have
an eight week "residence time". This is just an example: I don't know what
is optimum. This could be experimented with, to find out. 

Funny you should say that, I was just chiding myself for
letting several of the items stay here for far too long.
Opinions from anyone else?

Rob, this is totally cool! If ONLY this had been here when I first got here..

(I meant fast, not "fat".) Rob, what evidence do you have that you were
letting items stay too long? What are your specific goals in choosing the
residence time of items? My point is made by selena, who thinks intro
is "totally cool". That means she might spend more time in intro, than
in the cfs from which it comes. That is counter productive, if intro
is meant to attract (and instruct) users to use more of the cfs. You need
to make it less cool, so the conferences themselves do not suffer too
much by comparison. If *they* suffer, you won't have much new material to feed
into intro. (This is an exercise in working in an environment where everything
is connected to everything else.)

Re 12 - Thanks!

Re 13 - When I first envisioned this conference, I told myseld
that I shouldn't let any item stay here for more than two weeks,
no matter how interesting it was.  I left two items (the
"English as an official language" and Red Wings items) here for
three weeks.  I've been kicking myself since...

My main concern is that if I leave items here for a month or
two (which seems to be the time frame you're suggesting, correct
me if I'm wrong), that problems will arise:

*  I'll have a bunch of items that were active when I linked them,
but died off within a few days.  Do we want new users to see lots
of dead items here?

*  If the items here are hugely successful, like the two items I
mentioned above, then they will have a huge number of responses,
making it that much harder for a new user to join in.

*  If I get in the habit of leaving items here for months, then
people will grow comfortable with this conference, knowing that
the items here that interest him will be here forever.  I don't
want that.  I want Intro to be a perpetual kick in the pants.
I want users to know that if they want to follow the items that
really catch their fancy, they should get out of here and go to
the other conferences, instead of relying on this one.

Maybe it's because I'm from the MTV generation, where if the camera
stays on something for fifteen seconds, that's ten seconds too long.
But I never intended Intro to be static.  I always wanted items to
cycle in and out quickly, in fact, more quickly than I have been.
That way, the items will be recent, no items dated 1993, and new
users will still be able to get involved in the discussion without
having to sift through 500 responses.

We aren't seeing it very differently. However we have a big flux of
newusers, so if an item stays for time T, few experience it for that long
- in the steady state the average is T/2, and of course for some its just
once. This is a basis for (about) doubling whatever you think is a
reasonable time of explosure for one individual. I'd also like to suggest
that some items be brought over *truncated* - picked up from just the past
few months (plus the heading). I agree that even an active and interesting
item, but which started in 1993, can be too long - so, cut the first 250
(?!!) responses, and show the relatively current activity. (Of course,
tell the reader where to go to read the WHOLE thing.) I would not worry
about having *a* deadish item, because a newuser might want to pick up on
it. Why not pick a really dead item, and see what happens if you expose it
in this format? You can, of course, keep items for different lengths of
times, depending on your goals in including them. You seem to be flexible
and creative about the intro cf, so I'm just exploring the dimensions of
flexibility and creativity. 

I can't "trim" an older item in the manner you suggest, and I
don't want to split it off into a seperate item, that would only
confuse folks.  "Hey, I responded to this item in Intro, why isn't
my responses showing up in this other conference?"

"You can do anything with computers....." Right?

Only non-programmers ever say that.  >8)

The items files are maintained separately in diferent cfs, even if linked.
Apparently new responses are added to both. So, can't the item file in
intro be truncated (or perhaps one should say cropped to) remove early
responses, without affecting the file in the other cf? 

Yes, but it would require root (I believe), and I think
that would set a bad precedent.

This is a new and special conference, for which I would think that new and
special procedures would be acceptable (you are already inventing these).
I think it should be acceptable for a root to perform the surgery, if a
root scalpel is necessary. It would not affect the original item file.
(Sort of a root canal, eh?)

I have to agree with Rob here it is better to crop items from here and let
people go to the correct conf. (thats the idea here) if you cut early
responses it sometimes voids the discusions the item has developed making the
first response after seem odd to new users, adding new items and cropping the
old keeps intrest up for new users. Old grexxers arn't supposed to hang out
in intro they can find the confferences they want. New users don't know whats
out there that is what intro is for.

You must not have dealt with many 400 response items....it is just as well
to come in at an interesting point, and not read the whole thing. Besides,
we all do this when conferences are restarted - you are always coming in
in the middle, even if the item starts with response 1 (which following
response 705 in a previous incarnation). But my point is to not worry
about things like this - pick up Items wherever they are interesting. A
user can always go to the real item, and read earlier responses if they
want to.

you must not have been a new user a while ago

Funny thing, a while ago I was. My suggestions are based on my experience
as a new user. But then, there are differences in new user problems, so
one size does not fit all. Crop *some* items, for which it is appropriate,
and don't crop those for which it is not. 

Is this how I respond?
hello?

hello! That is indeed how you respond. Come visit again - and, Welcome
to Grex, lmaccabe.

Hello, lmaccabe!

HI Rob !  I'm a new user & hence find it difficult to grasp certain things
from your "Intro".  I think it would be a better idea if you kind of had a
complete list of all the help & introductory material in one single file for
guys like me to print & study.  By the way, how do I print items from the
conferences ?  Also I being a hardcore Windows programmer, find this User
Interface a bit (being mild) slow & irritating.  But its OK.  Thanks for the
help, anyway.  Grex is a great idea.  3 cheers to the founders !!

Hello homi!  Being a hard-core Unix programm, I would find
any interface other than this to be slow and irritating.  >8)

I like your idea about having a file available with all the
info, though I worry about how big the file would end up being.

If you want to print item 2, for instance, try this:

        !extract intro 2 | pcprint

at the Ok: prompt.  Or you can just dump it to a file like so:

        !extract intro 2 > filename

And then do whatever you like with the file.

I, too, am a newuser and look forward to learning about Grex

Welcome to Grex, reporter!

Thanks for the welcome! This is a wonderful conference!

hello.

Hello phani!

where can i find information on sex?

The Sexuality conference would probably be appropriate.
Type "join sex" at the Ok: prompt.

Yo rob! where's the item from rpg?
we need more interest.  It'd be nice if you could maybe put the fires of dis
adventure item in here but freeze it so people could read the incoming
responces and if they got really interested could join. or better yet.  link
the random tips item.  I think that might be better. Thank you
The tips item is item <7 I believe> that one wouldn't have to be frozen that'd
be much appreciated.  thanks again

Hi , H r u

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