Can anyone help me to get lynx 386 (lynx for DOS) to work properly on my 486?
The author of a package is trying to help by email but I am sort of hopeless
as I don't know how to read or write scripts or batch files.  I got to the
point (using some pieces from Arachne) where I can dial, load a packet driver,
and then browse with lynx, but cannot send mail or display images.  I can
offer a free meal and/or a bike repair for a couple of hours of hands-on help.
Also I would like to be able to telnet with Kermit (as a challenge - I can
telnet with another piece of Arachne based on cutcp).  This is lynx 2.8.4,
which has SSL (unlike the lynx on grex) and reads unicode.  I have the image
viewer working (Display beta 5).  Just can't get the pieces to go together.

27 responses total.

Cindi, if you've got a 486, you might well find it easier to get the
box up and running on the Internet by using Linux rather than DOS.
I can remember messing about with packet drivers and what have you
years ago on a DOS box, and it's no fun.  If you want to keep using
DOS software, you could either run dosemu on the Linux box, or put
the DOS machines on a network with the Linux box and use the latter
simply as an Internet gateway.

I expect it would take me a lot longer to learn to install LINUX on my 486
than to get sendmail to stop running out of environment space.  Yesterday I
got to the point where nothing else but sendmail crashes, and I can view
images.  The author appears to be willing to keep working on this until I get
it going and has already answered 40-50 emails.  Hopefully this will help him
to improve his instructionsfor other people like me.  He may switch from
sendmail to mailout (which can be set up to install more easily).  We found
one problem (his sample files wait for ogin: and I have PAP) and I will try
addingeven more environment space (more than 4k).  I have it dialing
andloadingthe packet driver and running lynx now, and displaying images.
I also don't have the time and interest to learn how to set up a network and
would prefer to get everything working on one (DOS) computer.  Of course you
are welcome to stop by and set up a network and LINUX for me ;=)  For the
record, I have not studied computer science nor do I know much about UNIX.

I didn't study computer science either (philosophy, actually), and
when I started with Linux all I knew about Unix was that I wanted it.
It really isn't as hard as people make out.  If you can hack DOS
to the extent of getting on the Net, then you have enough techincal
nous to tackle Linux.  Of course, you may prefer to stick with what
you know, that's understandable; and I don't get a referral fee from
Linus Torvalds for every new Linux user I create, so I'm not trying
to "convert" you!  It just struck me that you do seem to put a lot
of effort in to geting stuff working on DOS that would just run out
of the box with Linux.  Not a criticism, must an observation.

Another point is that more people know about getting Linux up and
running these days; hardly anyone is fiddling with DOS anymore.  So,
if you did try Linux, you'd immediately have more people in a position
to help.

DOS works on our XT laptop without a hard drive  (though my ISP hangs up on
it when I try to get connected because it is too slow answering).  Are there
versions of LINUX that will run from a floppy drive?  LINUX appears to be
designed as a multi-user system and I am a mono-user system..

Found a few problems and fixed them.  To run dosppp using chat.scr and
myppp.cfg you MUST NOT also have pppdrc.cfg and chatscr in the dosppp
directory.  Another problem was a missing call in front of a batch file name
used in another batch file.  Yet another problem was that the unix-type
commands gecho sed cat etc. were not on the path - the author never said to
put them there.  He will make the instructions clearer.  And hopefully rewrite
so as not to need pushdir and popdir (which he did not provide, or specify
had to be on the path).  I can now run the program (dial, load packet driver,
load lynx) with one command, and send mail (with one error message having to
do with pushdir and not finding a directory which may not matter).
But half the time I get the message "PPP link is down.  Cannot load packet
driver."   This does not happen with Nettamer but it does with Arachne which
also uses epppd.  Is there a fix for it?  Is there some timing problem with
the ISP?  This batchfile is now set up to dial and immediately after
connecting to load the packet driver.

Has anyone used Kermit to telnet?  When I try it cannot connect with the
nameserver, or with grex when I give the IP number.

I've telnetted with Kermit and had no problems.

Can you list exactly what you do to telnet with Kermit, after dialing and
loading packet driver?  What I do next (after filling in mscustom.ini for
bootp and DNS numbers and even gateway address) is type set port tcp/ip
www.grex.org (or the IP number for grex).  It then tries to connect and says
it cannot connect (to DNS server or to grex when given IP number).  I also
tried first giving it a set KERMIT = path c:\kermit (did I get this right?).
I am in the Kermit directory as is mscustom.ini.  

We removed all the pwd and pushdir and popdir stuff from the batch file and
I will remember if I shell to go back where I was.  Now it all works except
for sendmail.bat not finding wattcp.cfg.  What programs need wattcp.cfg? 
Sendmail can use bootp instead.  

Has anyone used bobcat 386 with nmo?  I cannot get the latter to run 'olim'
which writes and/or reads mail.  It wants a full path to munpack, which is
in the same directory that I am in when I try to run it.  munpack decodes base
64 files.  The mailout program won't work either.

Oops, forgot you were talking about the DOS version.

Of course, what else?  Anyone have any ideas on how to set the .cfg
file for epppd (dos ppp) so that it will wait longer to do PAP authentication
instead of telling me PPP link is down cannot load packet driver?  
There are settings to change the max no of PAP authentication requests
transmissions from default 10, and to setPAP restart interval from 3 seconds
to something else.  Is either of these likely to help?  Half the time I try
I cannot load packet driver, especially during busy times (5 pm).

Also can lynx be set so as to wait longer for the DNS computer and not tell
me nameserver ARP failed (what does that mean?).  Usually cutcp telnet works
but sometimes it also gives up when lynx is getting this message - so it is
set differently somehow.  

The other browsers I am using don't have these problems (except Arachne which
is using dos ppp).

#4: Sure, Linux will run on a floppy-only system.  There are several
distributions designed to work like this.  Of course, they need enough
RAM for a decent-sized ramdisk, since using a floppy filesystem,
while possible, is insanely slow.  But Linux needs at least a 386 to
run (though there is a work in progress to get a version up on older
x86 chips).  I have run a Linux distribution (what I've christend
"minmal Linux" -- http://dunne.home.dhs.org/minimal_linux.html)
on a 386/20 with 1Mb RAM and a 40Mb HD.

What I have done with older laptops in the past is run a serial cable
to the linux box, and use the laptop as a dumb terminal.  Doesn't work
when you're on the move, of course.

Linux is multi-user, of course.  That's an advantage, not a drawback,
even if only one actual person is using the machine.

Right.  I run Linux at home even though I'm the only person using
the system.  So far nobody has arrested me for it.  :)

Why is multi-user an advantage if I am one user?
I have a version of Bobcat (lynx) for the 8088 for DOS.
I can think of two reasons to use a laptop.
1.  While traveling.
2.  While in bed (because the rest of the house is too cold to work in, or
because you are too sick to get up).
I may put lynx on the 386 when I can get it to connect (epppd) reliably.
It has to be something about timing.  It has not worked all of Saturday
but is okay weekdays during the day.
I wrote the author of epppd for help.  I was sent some new files to test out
with lynx and I cannot even get connected to test them.  Frustrating.

Multi-user means (among other things) the ability to easily run multiple
processes at once.  This makes it much less hassle to run simultaneous telnets
and such, and to have a TCP/IP stack running in the background.  With DOS you
have to spend a fair amount of time just getting that sort of stuff to work
under a single-process environment.  Plus all that Internet stuff is designed
into Linux, whereas in DOS you have to spend time adding it on.

I only telnet to grex and have no reason to telnet to two grex accounts at
the same time. Would linux allow me to telnet to grex and also access data
on my computer?  I can already dial in and shell from Kermit back to DOS.

How about being able to run lynx and telnet sessions at the same time, so you
can refer to a webpage you are writing about?

You mean show lynx on one half and telnet on the other half of the screen?
It is really a lot more convenient to dial than to telnet to grex, the
connection is much faster, and I don't mind exiting whatever program I am in
(pine or bbs) to use lynx.  
The latest challenge is figuring out why kermit will telnet with the
mscustom.ini file from version 315 (which also works to dial with) but not
with the same file from version 316, with the TCP/IP lines filled in the same
but a few other minor differences.  Version 316 crashes.  It is set for $REMIP
etc. instead of BOOTP.  What is REMIP and what does it have to do with gateway
IP?  Is Kermit getting its info from wattcp.cfg, which was also changed to
make it work?  
        Why does lynx on grex run up to 14K and on my computer 2-3K?

What I'm referring to is being able to have multiple "screens", which you
would switch between via some key combination (it's typical to assign them
to Alt-F1, Alt-F2, etc.) rather than splitting the screen.

The lynx on Grex is bigger and also more stable?  I'm not sure how that would
be a big surprise.  The Unix versions are almost certainly better supported
than the DOS versions, plus the difficulty of running a DOS TCP/IP stack in
limited memory along with everything else.

So it is the computer speed which is slowing down lynx and not my modem speed
versus a DSL line?  Would lynx run faster on a pentium than a 486? (We have
one that we have not found a use for yet).  Would 32M RAM work better than
16M RAM?  This lynx is 32-bit (it is the only thing on my computer that is,
other than a viewer program installed to go with lynx.)

Kermit is getting its REMIP info from ip-up.bat which is being created each
time I run dos ppp.  

So multiple screens lets you switch back and forth between, say, Pine and Lynx
while telnetted to grex?  Rather than postponing the message, checking in
lynx, quitting lynx, going back to Pine?  

Some day if I have the time and strength I may try to install Linux (but
probably not on a network - one step at a time).  

Kermit lets you scroll back a few screens.  So I think I could go to the URL
of interest with lynx, then quit lynx and go into Pine and scroll back to that
screen, while dialed in directly.
Got lynx working to the point where I can telnet from the bookmark file (but
still need some sort of script to log in with Kermit like I do when dialed
in).  Dialed connection is at least twice as fast as telnet for me.  

I am telnetted to grex with kermit 316.  I sent mail with Mail okay.
I went into pine and reverse video is missing in the main screen and in the
index of received messaged.  Going in and out of pine a few times does not
fix this.  Going in an out of lynx restores reverse video to Pine. Why?
Can I change some setting to make Pine work without first running lynx?
I don't get this problem when dialed in directly.

Reverse video would be a combination of your Grex settings and your PC
software settings.  Not sure why one app would do it better than another,
though.

Try using the "set" command before and after to see if anything is changed,
maybe.

Will do that now. Befoer and after running lynx.

I looked at set and did not see anything obviously different before and after
running lynx.  What sort of setting might I try changing in kermit to fix the
problem (what does lynx maybe set that I should have kermit also set - but
kermit works fine when dialed, just not when telnetted).

The author of lynx284 for DOS package reports that he has fixed a small bug
in it that was causing sendmail to run out of environment space and there is
now a new version (b instead of a) posted at www.rahul.net/dkaufman/ (click
on 'here').  I still don't know why Kermit will telnet with his .ini file but
not with mine, or why it does not show reverse video in pine when telnetted.
(Small chance that there is also a small bug in the latest Kermit?).

The pine 'reverse video' problem had something to do with Doug (lynx author)
using a different setup in Pine (standout) and I will fix it by changing the
color settings.

I found two differences between the ini files that might be relevant.

Mine (that does not work) includes the lines:

check tcp
if fail forward notcp

and also in the telnet definition:

pause 0, if fail end 1,-  
(the working file lacks the second half of this line).

Is this ini file telling it to quit without contacting the name server?

For some reason sendmail works in about 2-10 seconds when used with bootp but
takes a minute without it (using a REMIP setup and ip-up.bat).  Does anyone
know anything about this?  When it goes fast, it tells me (with echo turned
on) cannot find wattcp.cfg trying bootp.  Maybe wattcp.cfg should be removed?

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