This is where we'll talk about ftp.  Ask questions, share interesting ftp
sites, inquire where one might find specific things.

34 responses total.

For those who don't know, ftp (file transfer protocol) is a protocol for the
transferring of files from one system to another.  In order to use it, you
must know the name or numeric address of another system that runs an ftp
client.  

If you don't have it, get Fetch. You dont' need a comm program with Telnet
to use it. The only problem I've found with Fetch, is that it has problems
with generic binary files (as opposed to WORD, or Macbinary, files).

OK, rcurl, I'll bite.  What is Fetch?  What hardware do you need to use it?
Where does it come from?  Why do you like it?

And this is probably the place to talk about that gizmo which helps find
stuff that's available for ftp, Archie.  Can anyone explain what archie
is and how to use it?

I've used archie a few times and I'm not sure that I understand it.

Archie is supposed to be a searchable database of files available by
ftp.  I know that it works for finding where a specific file is 
available.  It may list several places where it is stored, and for each
it will list the system name, the pathname and the directory.

I was under the impression that archie could search for files by type 
(as opposed to knowing the filename).  That's what I'm not sure of.

Re #2,3:
Fetch is an ftp client for Macintosh. If you have a PC you can't use it.

Mac users probably all know that one of the best archives in the
world for Macintosh freeware and shareware is right here in Ann
Arbor at U of M.  You can ftp to mac.archive.umich.edu .

I almost never do so from grex though, for the following reasons:
(1) After I ftp the file to grex over the internet link at whatever
fraction of its 14.4k that is my share, I still have to download the
program to my mac at 2400 baud.
(2) there is a better alternative. Anyone with a Mac can obtain a
legal copy of MacTCP somehow ($79 from apple, but much less if bought
bundled with a comms program or Adam Engst's book) and then get
MacPPP (which is free) and call up Merit and ftp that way.
It's 9600 baud and open to the public and deliver's the file
right to your mac non-stop.

Also it leaves a Grex phone line available for someone else. :-)

Now back to the wonders of ftp-
If you have to ftp outside of Michnet, as I sometimes do when I 
get files from ftp.apple.com, I can do so via Grex. It's slow,
but it's better than nothing. MacPPP is useless for this puprpose
unless you are a UM student or staff or have MichNet authorization.

There's a lot of interesting stuff on ftp.apple.com for Mac
developers that Apple will not allow to be distributed from any other
site (or else U of M would have it).

Steve described Fetch and where to get it locally. It was the first
"easy ftp" application I learned about, having done all the path stuff
and launching ftp, the old hard way. Fetch (and others) negotiate 
signon (anonymous) and the path automatically. I've since implemented
the Versaterm FTP Client Tool, and VT FTP Client, and Versaterm-Link,
all of which have *slightly different* FTP interfaces (arrgghh!), but
much like Fetch. VT FTP will at least download .zip and .exe files,
which I have not been able to get Fetch to do over MacPPP.

Re: Archie, as near as I can determine, Archie will *only* perform exact
file-name (plus wildcarding) searches.  For instance, a search on dsz*.*
returns a list of all files that begin with dsz.  One cannot perform
key-word or sounds-like searches using Archie.  I've been trying to find out
how to do so.  So far, Veronica has proven the most useful for this
application, though that's not what it is designed to do.

Archie can actually do several kinds of searches; it has exact keyword
searches, substring (case-sensitive and -insensitive), and regexp
searches.  Sounds-like searches are still not possible, but might be
being worked on.  BTW, Grex has an Archie client installed now,
so you don't have to telnet to an Archie server to do searches.
Try "man archie" for more information.

I started a separate Item 12 on archie, since it is a separate client
from ftp, although it serves ftp. It seems to me that long lists of
ftp sites are somewhat irrelevent, with archie available. On the other
hand, anonymous ftp (often) doesn't require authentication, while I
have the impression that archie does (doesn't it?).

Gee I didn't think so. I haven't used it (yet) though.

I've never known an archie server that did.

I think a list of ftp sites is valuable because it does not tie up the net
with extra archie traffic.  Also, I haven't used archie, but I assume you
can't use archie to search for things you don't know exist.  You can,
however, browse the list to find things beyond your wildest dreams.

Well, I suppose you could do a regular expression archie search that
would list everything whatsoever that archie knows about, but that's
not recommended.  

My question about authentication in #10 was partly a moment of temporary
(!?) confusion. Anonymous ftp and archie sites don't require authentication
if you telnet to them, but if you run an ftp or archie client you have
to authenticate onto Internet. There was a warning on archie.sura.net
that interactive sessions "may be limited" - i.e., the end of telnet
access - which would require that everyone run a client, and hence have
Internet authentication. I use MacPPP to a MichNet NAS because I have
a MichNet ID. Others now just return (say) mac.archives.umich.edu at
the MichNet Which Host? prompt, and engage in an interactive ftp. That
is what's time may be limited. 

The following comes from the now defunct item 2.

#5 of 9: by Greg Cronau (gregc) on Thu, Feb 10, 1994 (09:35):

 Just FYI, there is a new ftp client program called ncftp. Check it out.
 It has alot of nice features and appears to be superior to the standard ftp.

#6 of 9: by John H. Remmers (remmers) on Thu, Feb 10, 1994 (20:51):

 Oh goodie.  I love superior stuff!

Fetch 2.1.2 is out. I didn't immediately notice anything different in
its GUI - though I hope they fixed that binary download problem - but
it came with a folder of 74 bookmarks, for ftp sites around the world.
There's quite a variety of "speciality" sites includes, as well as the
standbys (e.g., maue). 

I saw that new fetch appeared on the U of M archive. I haven't had time
to play with it though. 

Some of the bookmark sites aren't accessible by anonymous ftp - or by
my trying to guess an ID. e.g., FAQS. Incidentally, about a dozen of
the bookmarks are maue mirrors around the world. 

All that is nice and dandy (Not to sound unpleased) But how about some
addresses of all those ftp sights you are talking about ;)

Look for mac.ftp.list in newsgroup comp.sys.mac.misc{

Well, I couldn't find mac.ftp.list at comp.sys.mac.misc, but the newsgroup
faq led me to ftp to rtfm.mit.edu, in /pub/usenet/news.answers/ftp-list.
This directory contains the file faq and the directory /sitelist, where
there are 8 or so lists of "all known" ftp sites, with descriptions of
each. Try it (if you've got the memory to download to). I only ftp'd
part1 (60K), which covers A to C.

is that news.answers/ftp-list the same as the ftp list in /usr/local/inet
right here on grex?  If so, use the local copies rahter than putting
additional strain on the link and disk.  If not, please let me know
if you downloaded the most recent ftp-list to grex so I can put it in
there for everyone to use.

I'll have to check. How do I read that .gz file (time to learn something
new!). I do all my ftp'ing via a direct MacPPP-NAS-MichNet link, but
I didn't think that I was encouraging people to use the grex link. The
/ftp-list files amount to 500K or so. Is that what we have here? Say,
can I read that file through !lynx? I haven't been looking around what
we have here accessible through !lynx.

Whattayouknow. I figured out zcat on my own. This stuff must be seeping
into my brain. Yes - what's in /inet here, is from news.answers/ftp-list,
except that I downloaded the 24 March edition, more recent than the
one here. I could not find a way to ftp-list here via !lynx. I found
it listed on a page, but didn't see the directory given. Probably my
oversight. I am going to have to spend more time in !lynx - it is very
good! I was already referring newusers that have !chat-ted me to it
for info, but hadn't explored it myself since the recent heavy work on
it had started. 

Is there anyone out there there that can
download a "GIF" file using the kermit
protocal? I've been able to download using
the xmodem but have been unsuccessful with
kermit. When I tell the my software to recieve 
a binary file, it keeps trying until it
finally times out. Help would be greatly
appreciated.

make sure you set file type binary at the transmitting end

Yep.  Kermit settings like that have to be made on *both* ends before you
start the transfer.  Bleah.  But I'd expect it to transfer the file, just
in corrupted form.  I don't see why it should time out.

BINARY FTP DOWNLOAD VIA UNIVERSITY CWIS GOPHERS (req. by srw)  :)
-----------------------------------------------
One of the little-known gems of Gophers (such as the one at MSU) is
their ability to perform FTP dowloads with a few simple keystrokes.
Most users rapidly discover the "D" option (that's CAPITAL D) which
will rapidly transfer the file at the pointer from the server to 
the CWIS client, and then prompt you to initiate a download to your
local PC. More experience normally demonstrates that said download
is most effective for text files, and that the second stage should
universally be done via Kermit because the x/y/z-modem protocols
are rarely supported. This writer even believed he had a complete
handle on binary downloads because he had used this method to 
acquire .ZIP, .TAR, .Z, .GZ, .ZOO, .BOO, and .GIF files created
and/or archived on Unix machines and move them to his PC for
decompression/installation. This early success was only because
of the use of "gopherised" FTP sessions such as those on the 
celebrated _Gopher Jewels_ server (Internet|Computer Related) which
so admirably retrieve binary files from the SIMTEL20 mirror at 
Oakland University and other sites. The question becomes more
subtle, however, when one wishes to use a CWIS Gopher as a general-
purpose 8-bit FTP tool to an arbitrary site.

One rapidly discovers that many servers in Gopherspace implement
via an index (type 7) item a pick labelled: "Query a specific FTP
site". They are easy to find even without Veronica, yet most route
thru a session either at UMN or at UIUC which can produce bizarre
results during binary file transfer. The good new is that you may,
indeed, enter a site name, and that the client will log you on 
(presumably anonymously) to the site and present you with a gopher
interface to the directories constituting the FTP area. Beyond this,
however, if you attempt to perform the customary transfer on a binary
file, you often see perhaps 50 or so bytes transferred: a brief file
containing the disappointing message: "File did not appear to contain
text". Sometimes the transfer will not take place at all; via 
some servers you will receive a file roughly 30% the size of the 
desired binary with gratuitous 0D/0As thrown in periodically.

So what's up? I wish I were a techie instead of a hacker, & I could 
tell you. All I can reveal is the current state of *my* solution:
"Query a specific FTP host" via a type 7 gopher item is normally
implemented via port 4320 using a resource dubbed "FTPHACK". The
difficulty is that the success of the transfer relies on the 
*server* and that the intelligence of a 4320-FTPHACK seems to 
vary greatly throughout gopherspace. The solution is to search
untiringly for one which universally recognises binary files as 
such and hence transfers them correctly to the CWIS client. Good
Veronica arguments for such a search are: FTP (host or site) -t7 -l.
At this writing, my favourite is at CITI in Lille, France. It
can be found readily under "Logiciels|FTP|Preciser". At this
writing, it works for me, although I have much more to learn and
discover. I hope this helps clear some things up. Au Revoir! |8^)

Thanks to all for their help on the "KERMIT" download question.
I will give them all a try and let you all know of my success or
failure.

I'm new to Internet.  The most interesting feature for me is FTP.
It is a mystery to me.  When I locate a file on gopher I usually mail
the file to myself because       do not know how to use FTP.  Is there
somewhere in the internet where I can get a non-confusing tutorial?
I am a DOS person and I Know next to nothing about UNIX other than
those necessary for Internet.

I would imagine that the internet roadmap files would have a good
description of ftp. We have those files here on Grex. They are in
/bbs/roadmap. There are 47 of them. The index is /bbs/roadmap/roadmap.index

Try typing !more /bbs/roadmap/roadmap.intro
and then   !more /bbs/roadmap/roadmap.index

You will see that ftp starts with file #21, which you can view with
!more /bbs/roadmap/roadmap.21

Hey um i 'm lookin for some one to teach me. i mean i want to become an
apprentice in ftp stuff and ip and unix crap and stuff basically i want to
specialize in phreaking and cryptology. 

My email is Chameleon777@hotmail.com
exit

..and maybe how to enter in the Pentagon !
you're in the wrong place
luca_

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