This is the item to discuss gopher, ask questions, share neat things you
have found on gophers, etc.

34 responses total.

For any who don't know, gopher is an Internet navigation tool, designed to
provide easy access to a wide variety of Internet resources through a
text-based menu-driven interface.  Users choose items from menus, and the
Gopher software takes care of the details of transferring control to the
appropriate host that contains the requested resource.  In theory, the feel
is of one interconnected set of resources.

Will someone who has the addresses please post them for a few gopher servers
that one can telnet to from here.

(Technically, one telnets to a gopher client, which in turn telnets to
a gopher server.)

Chris, my favorite is the gopher at MSU.  I just call 998-1302 for
the MichNet "Which Host?" prompt.  I then type "msu-gopher" and 
log in as "gopher".

If you follow through the menu for the Internet, there's an option
to connect to any gopher in the world--just sort through the menus.

You don't need to telnet to MichNet (Which Host?) to telnet to msu-gopher.
You can just call up with simple serial. This is what remmers is
referring to, except that that first step can be either a Serial or
Telnet connection. Telnet uses a packet network - you are not connected
directly to another machine - your computer generates addressed packets
that find their way there. That's why you can have several "connections"
(packet addresses) simultaneously. 

(Actually, I was referring to the software that "does" gopher once
you make a connection by whatever means.)

Rane, part of the reason that I call MichNet (instead of telnetting) is
that sometimes I'll be on the system for hours at a time.  Since Grex
has a limited number of modems, and MichNet is available for free, it
makes sense to me not to tie up Grex lines.

For the MSU gopher, if you're already logged into grex and are only going to
be on for a short period of time, you can also telnet to burrow.cl.msu.edu
and log in as gopher.

Carl, I agree with you. I would always recommend the direct (serial)
dialin to MichNet for anything for which authentication is not needed.
In #5 I was expanding on remmers' #3, to say one doesn't need to *telnet*
to the gopher. There is a big difference in response, since local clients
are usually pretty slow compared to what the Internet can do. This is
petty noticeable even though I call MichNet on 998-1304.

(Sorry, I thought #5 was referring to #4.  My mistake.)

I recently connected to grex by an interesting route. I started with the
gopher client TurboGopher 1.0.8b4, which got me the Home Gopher Server at
UM, via MacPPP and the NAS. The pages from there are: 

Home Gopher S./Other Gopher and Internet S./North America/USA/
michigan/Michigan State Univ/Network and Database../Internet Resources/
Gopher-Jewels/Free-Net and../Free-Net Systems/Grex FREE-NET/Login as
Newuser? OK/grex login: 

I tried this to see if a gopher client would eventually yield telnet
connections, and the answer is yes. The interface is somewhat friendlier
than a direct telnet first to msu-gopher: for one thing, no menu numbers -
just "folder" menus, and apparently a lot more levels. 

A drawback is that the window is tiny - like looking through the wrong end
of a telescope - which isn't so far from the truth. I guess the packet get
tired, turning all those pages. The interface is also NCSA Telnet, which
TurboGopher launched at some point. 

This wasn't a practical maneuver, of course: I had to have authentication
for MichNet to use the client on it, and I could have telnetted directly
to grex, rather than go around the barn. However it does provide a
useful "white pages", for hunting.

I've been poking around gopherspace more with the Turbogopher client
(with MacPPP link to MichNet). I've observed a "strange" situation,
which I would like to ask about. I've used the Veronica search option
to find, for example, gophers to The New Yorker. I found a whole page
of files and links under "New Yorker", but almost all of them are
pieces of obsolete comments on something that appeared in the New Yorker,
or they are even "blank", despite the link being there. Why is all that
useless debris lying around?  I've found the same kind of junk at other
gopher sites. Its as though the "room" had been used for a while (for
a party?), and then everyone left their trash. [I was looking for useful
information about The New Yorker, like an editorial or circulation
e-mail address. Nothing like that was there.]

Same reasons junk like that builds up elsewhere.  Time, progress, and
other changes have made some information obsolete (like that phone
book from two years ago), and no one has bothered to clean up the mess.
I suppose the system can tolerate a certain amount of useless crap
before it becomes annoyingly unuseable.  If you have an e-mail address
to the person maintaining that information, you could let them know.
Although if their incoming folder looks like that page...

There are also many many copies of pieces of *identical* junk, like
the programs that litter the room after a meeting. There is an air
of desolation about the places. Gopherspace needs some night custodians
to sweep it out.

No problem, as long as that night lasts for several years...  >8)

What would be nicer is if the search programs kept better track
of which items are still there and which aren't.  I don't mind
getting a hundred articles which aren't what I'm looking for,
or don't have anything to do with it but just happen to have
that string within their text (ask me how many of those I ran
into when searching for "pagan"), but pointers to no-longer-existing
items really bug me.

Isn't Rane's problem due to the fact that the "search and compile", page
creating services work very well at gathering information from a variety
of sites, but have an element of "dumbness" about them which leads to a
gathering of wool?  Does *anyone* at all manage a lot of the information
floating around out there?

One funny part of it is that there will be a dozen items on the same
page, all with the same name and contents. They must also breed.

I suspect that that's because many other pages have links to
those same articles, and the search program counts each
instance as a seperate "hit".  I.e., if my WWW pages have a
pointer to the Babylon 5 information pages, and carl's
pages also have this pointer, and kaplan also has a pointer
to those pages, the search program would look at our three
sets of pages, find three pointers for Babylon 5 information,
and count them all.

That makes sense, as I was running a veronica search, not just looking
at a gopher page. (But I don't know how veronica works in that respect.)

I'm looking for a way to get to gopherspace so I can Veronica or
MSU-Gopher to Grex from Saratoga Springs, NY, where I visit up to 3 weeks
a year.  I'm not sure how to start such a search, so I thought I'd toss it
out here for advice.  Does NY have a statewide public access system ala
Merit, or some other method for transient users to log in?  I have some
friends there who would go online if a decent service was available, then I
could use their account...

I seem to remember hearing about something called the Dorsai or something
like that a while back.  I've got some info somewhere, and I remember they
were based in NY.  They offered free Internet access if I remember
correctly.  I don't know if they're state-wide, but I'll look through what
I have.

Thanks.  We'll do a little checking while we're over there I presume, but
I thought something might pop up here.

Their address is dorsai.dorsai.org, if that helps.  (I don't
know much about them myself.)

I telnetted to dorsai.dorsai.org and found SunOS (dorsai). after failing
to log in, I did a veronica search for dorsai and connected to Dorsai
MaiTai Gopher (same outfit) which is part of a computer literacy
"connectivity for all" 501c3 co*op*oration (or whatever).  The only phone
number was a staff number in Long Island,  NY. I reconnected to
dorsai.dorsai by telnet from their gopher and "new" logged me through a
temporary account registration and nothing else.  I'll have to go back and
try my temporary account, but it looks like a NYC regional effort,
although I could be wrong.  I did see some membership info referring to a
"platinum" membership with "full" (4 hours per day) internet access.  They
pitch free internet access for all, but I'm not clear on what level.

I have an account on the Dorsai Embassy (dorsai.org is sufficient to
connect.)  Your trial account is good for 14 days, after which you are
reaped if you're not a member.  You can now log onto your account and you
will be in a menu shell that gives you access to everything the trial
accounts can do.

After you become a platinum member, you get a Unix shell account, (or you
can pay more for a slip connection) and then it's just a Unix box.

I gather that their charitable work involves helping the disabled use
computers, computer literacy, and the like, though I don't know for sure.

BTW, this is not an advertisement.  I'm only using them because they are
the cheapest reliable POP server I've found from Merit.

I was under the impression m-net had a POP server.

I did say reliable, didn't I?  <grin>  Actually, I lost Pop access at
M-net for an unknown reason for a week, decided I couldn't tolerate it any
longer, and switched.

        M-Net reaps guest accounts after a month of no logins, but for
$5/month you can have an account guaranteed to remain intact whether you
log in or not.  Or if you log in once per month your account will be
immune from reaping.  Chris, I am sorry about your bad experience.  I
invite you to give M-Net another try.
        (I'm a root on M-Net and vice president of Arbornet.  If other people
need information about M-Net, please feel free to send me mail.  Even if
it takes me a few days to log in here, the mail will be forwarded to me
and I will answer it as soon as I get it.)

M-net is an amazing system with lots and lots of activity.
Those who haven't tried it should really give it a look.

I agree, but the way things have gone I find I don't have the
time to be frenetic on *two* systems. For those interested in Grex
governance, it is very informative to follow the events in their
policy cf (as some of them follow our coop). Some issues are very
similar (public access), while others are quite different (M-net
has an office at the NEW Center).

I've found M-Net quite manageable ever since I dropped the general cf
from my .cflist.

        (I have to do the same thing here, Kent!)

Hey, I haven't read the general cf here since last April.  I
don't miss it, either.

(Re: 32: <g>)

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