A little something Carolyn found....

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A British scientist studying heart attack 
patients says he is finding evidence that suggests that consciousness 
may continue after the brain has stopped functioning and a patient is 
clinically dead.

The research, presented to scientists last week at the California 
Institute of Technology (Caltech), resurrects the debate over whether 
there is life after death and whether there is such a thing as the human 
soul.

``The studies are very significant in that we have a group of people 
with no brain function ... who have well-structured, lucid thought 
processes with reasoning and memory formation at a time when their 
brains are shown not to function,'' Sam Parnia, one of two doctors from 
Southampton General Hospital in England who have been studying so-called 
near-death experiences (NDEs), told Reuters in an interview.

``We need to do much larger-scale studies, but the possibility is 
certainly there'' to suggest that consciousness, or the soul, keeps 
thinking and reasoning even if a person's heart has stopped, he is not 
breathing and his brain activity is nil, Parnia said.

He said he and colleagues conducted an initial yearlong study, the 
results of which appeared in the February issue of the journal 
Resuscitation. The study was so promising the doctors formed a 
foundation to fund further research and continue collecting data.

During the initial study, Parnia said, 63 heart attack patients who were 
deemed clinically dead but were later revived were interviewed within a 
week of their experiences.

Of those, 56 said they had no recollection of the time they were 
unconscious and seven reported having memories. Of those, four were 
labeled NDEs in that they reported lucid memories of thinking, 
reasoning, moving about and communicating with others after doctors 
determined their brains were not functioning.

FEELINGS OF PEACE

Among other things, the patients reported remembering feelings of peace, 
joy and harmony. For some, time sped up, senses heightened and they lost 
awareness of their bodies.

The patients also reported seeing a bright light, entering another realm 
and communicating with dead relatives. One, who called himself a lapsed 
Catholic and Pagan, reported a close encounter with a mystical being.

Near-death experiences have been reported for centuries but in Parnia's 
study none of the patients were found to have received low oxygen 
levels, which some skeptics believe may contribute to the phenomenon.

When the brain is deprived of oxygen people become totally confused, 
thrash around and usually have no memories at all, Parnia said. ``Here 
you have a severe insult to the brain but perfect memory.''

Skeptics have also suggested that patients' memories occurred in the 
moments they were leaving or returning to consciousness. But Parnia said 
when a brain is traumatized by a seizure or car wreck a patient 
generally does not remember moments just before or after losing 
consciousness.

Rather, there is usually a memory lapse of hours or days. ''Talk to 
them. They'll tell you something like: 'I just remember seeing the car 
and the next thing I knew I was in the hospital,''' he said.

``With cardiac arrest, the insult to the brain is so severe it stops the 
brain completely. Therefore, I would expect profound memory loss before 
and after the incident,'' he added.

Since the initial experiment, Parnia and his colleagues have found more 
than 3,500 people with lucid memories that apparently occurred at times 
they were thought to be clinically dead. Many of the patients, he said, 
were reluctant to share their experiences fearing they would be thought 
crazy.

A TODDLER'S TALE

One patient was 2-1/2 years old when he had a seizure and his heart 
stopped. His parents contacted Parnia after the boy ''drew a picture of 
himself as if out of his body looking down at himself. It was drawn like 
there was a balloon stuck to him. When they asked what the balloon was 
he said, 'When you die you see a bright light and you are connected to a 
cord.' He wasn't even 3 when had the experience,'' Parnia said.

``What his parents noticed was that after he had been discharged from 
hospital, six months after the incident, he kept drawing the same 
scene.''

The brain function these patients were found to have while unconscious 
is commonly believed to be incapable of sustaining lucid thought 
processes or allowing lasting memories to form, Parnia said -- pointing 
to the fact that nobody fully grasps how the brain generates thoughts.

The brain itself is made up of cells, like all the body's organs, and is 
not really capable of producing the subjective phenomenon of thought 
that people have, he said.

He speculated that human consciousness may work independently of the 
brain, using the gray matter as a mechanism to manifest the thoughts, 
just as a television set translates waves in the air into picture and 
sound.

``When you damage the brain or lose some of the aspects of mind or 
personality, that doesn't necessarily mean the mind is being produced by 
the brain. All it shows is that the apparatus is damaged,'' Parnia said, 
adding that further research might reveal the existence of a soul.

``When these people are having experiences they say, 'I had this intense 
pain in my chest and suddenly I was drifting in the corner of my room 
and I was so happy, so comfortable. I looked down and realized I was 
seeing my body and doctors all around me trying to save me and I didn't 
want to go back.

``The point is they are describing seeing this thing in the room, which 
is their body. Nobody ever says, 'I had this pain and the next thing I 
knew my soul left me.''' 


        I have to say that this just fascinates me greatly.  What do the rest
of you think?

11 responses total.

Oohh... interesante...

Other than interesting....?

It's one of those things that one has to take on faith (not the 
religious kind necessarily) and keep in mind that it just may have 
happened.  The brain is also a very powerful and still mysterious 
thing, and who knows what it's capable of doing.  Of course, if all 
body function has ceased entirely while this is going on . . . who 
knows.  I certainly don't want to be in the position to have one of 
these experiences . . .

I thought it was fasinating about the two year old....

They say that only 7 out of the 56 had these experiences./....I wonder if
there was something else going on, or if it had to do with personal beliefs,
or just luck, or what....

Well, don't most people try to rationalize when something out of the 
ordinary happens?

Why bother, though?  Just experienceing is more fun. :)

Because people don't necessarily like to feel out of control of 
things.  Less definable something is, the scarier it is.

I think in general people try to rationalize *everything.* It's funny 
when they don't think they're doing so and then when they're forced to 
really look at their behavior and their 'reasons' for doing so- well, 
it's all rationalized.

'Oh look, there's that cd that I heard about that I kinda want. Hmm, 
it's $15, I really shouldn't buy it since I'm low on cash this week. 
Although, I've had a bad week and could use some cheering up.' or 'But 
$15 is the sale price, if I don't buy it now than it'll cost more 
later.' or 'I haven't gotten a new cd in a long time, I'll just get 
this one now.' And there are lots of others- however, they're all still 
just rationalizations.

And look at how the old myths are born: We don't understand how valcanos work,
so we'll make up a story to explain it!

Personally, I found Melvin Morse's study on childhood NDE's the most
interesting . . . 

Please elaborate.  I'm not familiar with his work.

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