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This item is for people intergued by th Nordic Conquest. What I want to know Is what were the fruits of the Nordic Conquest and what were the evils.
59 responses total.
Why? I don't know if I'm intergued or not, so please provide some information that will permit me to decide one way or the other.
Vikings help to create new countrys. Vikings conquer most of Europe. Vikings found Iceland and Greenland. Leif Erikson lands on current U.S. 500 years before Columbus. The British, who tnik they're better than everone else, get stompped by Vikings twice. And on with the raping, pilaging and burning.
Sounds like the fruits of the Nordic Conquest were babies, deprivation, and ashes.
Babies?! I regret to inform you that the Viking format of Birth Control was to kill the woman(supposedly sending her to Asgard.) I think bloodshed could be added to that list.
But, back to my original question: why are we - you - discussing the Nordic Conquest? Isn't it a dead issue?
It's interesting to think about, actually. I mean, what possesses a certain group of people to take on a monumental task, such as the Nordic Conquest, the Crusades, building the pyramids, and building the medieval cathedrals. I guess the only thing that could compare to that recently is sending a man to the moon. We would do well to recapture that kind of spirit.
To the extent that the Nordic persued their conquests for gain, I question whether that is the spirit we want to recapture. They were (mobile) robber barons. The crusades were less materialistic - just wanting to suppress the infidels -, building the pyramids was not done for pelf (just for self); and building cathedrals was for the greater glory of an idea. I understand danr question with regard to his examples, but not with respect to the Nordic Conquest, where "filthy lucre" was the goal.
Ahh "Why" the question that never gets enough of an answer. I don't believe that the Nordic Conquest is a dead issue, at leat not yet. I do not believe it was that filthy either (The rape, yes.), I believe we or rather my ancestors were just "Power Hungry." The Crusades were just as bloody as the Nordic Conquest. The true goal of the Nordic Conquest was to found new countries, die in battle, and reach Valhalla. At least from the Viking perspective. I find the ancient religion behind all this very much more fair than Christianity. Supposedly in christianity you can be saved. To me thats a bunch of Poppycock! You have more free sailing with the Vikings(Religiously as well as literally.) Only three sins, and they all have to do with HOW you die.
I would like to get a reading list on this subject, so I could add to the discussion. I will say that the Vikings are fastenating, and probably helped to mix up the gene pool quite a bit.
I search mirlyn, and couldn't find much with any combinations of nor?,
conq?, scan?, except the following
Author: Wheaton, Henry, 1785-1848.
Title: History of the Northmen, or Danes and Normans, from the
earliest times to the conquest of England
Published: London, J. Murray, 1831.
SUBJECT HEADINGS (Library of Congress; use s=):
Northmen
Scandinavia--History
I have a book entitled THE CHILDREN OF ODIN, I don't know the author's name. However^[[C^[[C^[[Ao owever, I think it might help people better undtstand the relgion. After all, religion is the basis of that book.
Author: Colum, Padraic, 1881-1972.
Title: The children of Odin
Published: New York : Macmillan, c1920.
SUBJECT HEADINGS (Library of Congress; use s=):
Mythology, Norse
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LOCATION: CALL NUMBER: STATUS:
INFO&LIB ST Juvenile PZ 8.1 .C726 Not checked out
Collection
(I love it. I wish we had access to the U-M catalog from here on grex.)
Well, I think mirlyn is still available for free public use.
Re the early Nordics ... is "Eaters of the Dead" a real manuscript or just fiction? It purports to chronicle, in part, the encounter of some sort of Arabic diplomat with some of the residents of what is now Scandanavia, when the latter were seen by the former as savages. (The title refers to still another group.)
Mirlyn: dial 764 4800 (8N1) 2400 baud (or 763 6520, 1200 baud), and respond "mirlyn" (no quotes) to the Which Host? prompt. There are other host names for every university library in Michigan.
(What I meant was that I wish we could access that database while still logged in here.)
Yes, It would be nice if we could use mirlyn while still logged into Grex.
Get a second phone line. Hmmm. You could have two serial ports and two modems going. Is there any multitasking software to support two comm links at once?
I think there is, but that's an expensive solution. I'd rather donate the money to Grex with the idea of getting a real Internet connection. :)
This is cheaper?
I'd think that this is definately cheaper. But life is hell on earth so who cares about minor extra expenses.
See you in Valhalla...
I have a book called "History of the Vikings", which talks about life
for the average person in Viking lands. I haven't read it in a while, and
don't remember if it's any good or not.
The Norse brought a lot of things to England (that is the Nordic
Conquest you mean, isn't it?), including interest in shipping and many
improvements in shipping, thatched roofs, and government for the good of
the population, based on the consent of those being governed, an idea
which rose and fell after William the Conqueror, but later rose to great
prominence.
The Vikings controlled the middle third of England at one time. They
came to England because of a desire for the security of good farmland.
Life as a wandering pillager is exciting but dangerous, and awfully
insecure, even if you're as good at it as the Vikings were.
Harald Hardrada (Harald Hardrede, which meant "Harald the Stubborn"
more or less), who was called the Last Viking, claimed the kingship of
England. He attacked Edward (Edward the Confessor, wasn't it?), and was
defeated, but weakened Edward enough that William of Normandy was able to
defeat him and become known as William the Conqueror. If Harald had had
better luck, better spies, or more patience, he could have waited for
William and Edward to fight it out, then could have taken England. We
might all be worshipping Odin and Thor if he had done so. England was
difficult to attack, and rich with resources, so it would have been a
solid center for the growth of industrialization under any leadership.
Harald Hardrada is one of my favorite historical figures.
You're much more up on the details than I've ever been, so saying that this is all correct as far as I know doesn't pack much punch. But it's true. I believe that the Vikings were definitely looking for loot to take home, but that the places they came from were under pressure from excess population as well. So many of them were as interested in establishing a new residence, preferably one where they were nearer the top of the pecking order, as they were in maybe bringing home enough loot to buy land etc. I'm not sure to what extent population pressure was due to population increase and to what extent it was due to something like overfarming leading to loss of fertility; it seems to me I've met mention of both (but it could be somewhere else). Let's also remember that people were coming out of that general part of Europe, with all the usual atrocities & difficulties in the areas they went *to*, for hundreds of years.
I searched mirlyn this time with k=history and vikings. Much more
productive: 50 entries. Two are listed below. The first may be jep's
citation (there is also a 1930 "A History....", by a different author).
I thought the second looked interesting 8'(.
Author: Jones, Gwyn, 1907-
Title: A history of the Vikings
Edition: Rev. ed.
Published: Oxford ; New York : Oxford University Press, 1984.
SUBJECT HEADINGS (Library of Congress; use s=):
Vikings
Civilization
Scandinavia--Civilization
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LOCATION: CALL NUMBER: STATUS:
UNDERGRADUATE DL31 .J77 1984 Not checked out
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Author: Page, R. I. (Raymond Ian)
Title: "A most vile people" : early English historians on the Vikings
: the Dorothea Coke memorial lecture in northern studies
delivered at University College London, 19 March 1986
Published: London : Published for the College by the Viking Society for
Northern Research, c1987.
SUBJECT HEADINGS (Library of Congress; use s=):
Vikings--Great Britain.
Historians--Great Britain.
Great Britain--History--Anglo Saxon period, 449-1066--
Historiography.
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LOCATION: CALL NUMBER: STATUS:
GRADUATE LIBRARY DA152 .P13 1986 Check Shelf
Re #24: No we wouldn't! Odin and Thor are dead, Ragnaroek has already happend. Eight Immortals and teo mortals survived. Five of the Immortals were gods, the four I know are gods are: Vidar, Vali, Modi and Magni. The other four Immortals are: Ve, Vili, Will and Holiness. and Magni. The other four
Yes, the Gwyn Jones book is the one I mentioned. I'd better admit that I got a much better feel for the lifestyle of the Vikings, and for the life of Harald Hardrada, from Poul Anderson's historical fiction trilogy, "The Last Viking". Anderson is a good researcher, and also a good story teller.
If England was difficult to Attack, then how did the Norwegian Vikings waste it twice? The Normans of course were once Norwegians.
Well, the Vikings took large sections of England because they were
the greatest sea warriors of their time. There was little organized
resistance in the towns they attacked. Also, they were awfully determined
to take land, and they had a deserved reputation for fierceness, following
several decades of plundering attacks by wandering Vikings.
The Normans were able to win largely because of disorganization
and exhaustion on the part of the English after the attack by Harald
Hardrada. They did repel Harald, and probably could have repelled
William, but they couldn't repel both.
In fact, within a generation or so (and for quite some time thereafter) the Normans who had been granted (won) estates in England were busy fighting off occasional invasions from those who wanted their turn.
That sounds likely enough, but I've never heard it before.
I would have to dig somewhat for straight history, but for a fictionalized version aimed at English kids (a century ago, at that) you can't beat Kipling's _Puck of Pook's Hill_ - the immediately relevant story being "Old Men at Pevensy". For more, as I say, I'd have to dig & it would take a while.
Where? Out of someone's grave?
More likely the library. Although the encyclopedia *might* suffice.
An encyclopedia certainly wont give you as much information as some books, or some of the Sagas. What ever works, I guess.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the extensive Viking trade networks! They weren't only looting and taking land for settlement. Some of the largest Viking settlements were trading (market) towns, like Hedeby in Danmark. The Swedish move into Russia was largely for trading purposes. Dublin was founded as a Viking trading town, a Norwegian one. A good, accurate introduction to Viking history is: The Viking World, by James Graham-Campbell. Ticknor&Fields, New Haven, 1980 ISBN 0-89919-005-7 The author is a specialist in medieval archaeology, and was (at the time) at University College in London. The book's foreword was written by the director of the British Museum. But the book is written for a lay audience, with good illustrations.
I've just started reading the Gwyn Jones book. Maybe, if I stick with it, I'll have more to contribute to the discussion.
Remember to Pillage BEFORE you burn.
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