This may sound off the wall in this day and age of mistrust/ires

irresponsibility, but I'd like to throw out the idea of trying to restart the
"Blue Bicycle" program that was around in AA in the early 70's, I think, 
where people donated, bought at police bike sales, etc., community bicycles
which were all painted blue, and used as needed and left for the next user.
I may have the color, or the name of the program wrong, but the value of 
the program stands on its own.  Are the times too cynical and selfish here
in the 90's for this to be given  a try again?
Brother Bill- 

122 responses total.

I might add that this would be a good time to try it, with the school year
ending ending and many may be willing to donate old rust-buckets rather than
carting them home,  them home, especially graduating seniors. Brother Bill-

Bill, I think that is a great idea. I, for one, would definitely
participate. But, I am wondering how long it would last before all of
them are stolen or ruined beyond the point of use. It seems that the
majority of people nowadays don't respect other people property like]
they should. In Michigan where I live, one of the biggest tourisy
whoops, tourist attractions in the state it Mackinak Island (spelling?).
On the island, cars are prohibited. So the only thing for transportation
are Bicycles and Horse and buggy. So, there are many public Bike
renyals on the Island. For an overly prices fee and signing an agreement
with your balls attached, you can use one of these bikes for the day.
However, even in those cases, the bikes are very often misused.
You find them laying in ditches, beaches, etc...where people lay
them while they take pictures of the fat wife in her new G-string.
(nope, absolutely no childhood resentment of our states tourist trap)
But, my point was (and I do have one here, somewhere) is that
people couldn't handle a community program where trust is involved.
Jowever, I'm sure it would work great in a small town. Out town could
probably handle something like that. But where cities are concerned,
I don't think it would work.

Whoa, there are a lot of typos in that response. Sorry guys, I'm trying.

Heh - the first thing my brother did, last summer, when he arrived
was to "donate" a bicycle "to the masses." Not that this outcome
was his intended goal, understand, but that's how it worked out. Oh,
you +could+ call the event ..... stolen bike.

Now that I read my response again, it does seem quite pessimitic. I didn't
mean for it to come off like that. I do like the idea, I think it would
go far if introduced into the right enviroment and at the right time.
I would love it if the world would actually become more of a neighborhood
than a world divided in so many categories as it is now. So, don't think 
that I was flaming the item with that response.

From what I understand, it worked for a while when it was done in AA 20+ yeaars
 ago, but the culture was much more conducive then.  Eventually the frat boys
trashed/stole them, from what I hear.

<laughing out loud at James' reaction to Mackinac Island>  I feel the same
way about it, James.  =)

I think that the bicycles are a wonderful idea, provided that they aren't
mistreated.  I knoow quite a few people who would be more than happy to be
able to "borrow" a bike for a while just to do some errands or ride around.

(I don't think much of Macinac Island either, although my only really bad
experience there was dealing with the employees of the Grand Hotel)

        I've heard of several places where programs like this were tried
several years ago.  The result is generally the same: the program is very
successful for a while, adn then the bikes gradually start to diapperar as
people keep them.  For the program to work for a longer time, there would
have to be a way to replace the bikes that were stolen.
        There is another problem that might keep this sort of thing from
working these days: liability.  In this day when bike manufacturers are
being sued about just about anything imaginable, I would hate to see the
lawsuits that would go against any group putting out bikes for public use
like this.  People could sue saying that they hadn't been given proper
instruction on use of the bikes before having an accident with tehm, or
could claim that their accidents were the result of faulty maintenance. 
Also, there would be no way ti insure that all the users of the bikes
would wear helmets while using them, but it could be argued that such a
group would be negligent for providing the bikes without making sure
everybody who used them wore a helmet.  The risks are great enough taht I
wouldn't want to get involved in such a thing.

Steve brings up some very real legal problems. 

This reminds me of a teacher I had a high school -- probably the teacher I
respect the most. He had a biology trip to Jamaica every year for high
school students. The trip was expensive. He very bluntly told the students 
that no fund raisers were going to be held because students could earn much
more money (per hour) if they just worked at a part-time job after school.

Instead of paying (money and/or time) for community bikes which will be
abused more, everyone should just buy their own bike. Also, what if I don't
want to ride the same shit bike everyone else rides? What happens when these
bikes are stolen? Too many problems.

Rogue, no one is even asking you to ride one of these shit bikes- we're not
talking about BMWs, so I know you wouldn't want to touch them.
I don't think the legal problems are so 
great, for one thing, suers go after deep pockets, two, it's basically an 
anarchist idea, this was started on hippie conference.  It really doesn't 
need a Sponsoring Organization.  Do it!
Chicago Taxi Willie-

   Jemmie, its not that the bikes are good, but that they are
conveinent to use; go from point A to B, and then you don't have
to worry about locking it up.

  I think it's a cool idea!  Certainly bikes disappear over time, but
they're cool while they last.  I caught the tail end of (one of?) AA's
public bike program(s) in the mid-80's when I moved here; it worked
better than I'd have figured.  I think they were green bikes, and
volunteers got together periodically to maintain them.
 
  The story I heard was that they disappeared mainly to out-of-town
bike thieves.  I'm sure they disappeared many ways, but I doubt "frat
boys trashed/stole them" was a frequent ending, as I don't remember
seeing trashed green bikes, and local thieves would have to repaint
them due to their distinctive coloring.  If I were going to try this
again, I think I'd make them even more distinctive - weld some unusual
parts to them or something.
 
  There were plenty of bike thieves in the seventies.  I grew up in a
quiet suburb near a university, and occasionally vans would come by
and load up any unlocked bikes in the neighborhood.  The main
perpetrators would probably be poor people with transport, which is
probably a larger population than in the 70s, and bike dealerships,
who don't want the "competition," and have a direct path to sell
the bikes.
 
  I used to think a public bike program would work well on an island,
but the mackinac tales above have despelled me of that belief!

So if you're rummaging around at a garage sale and see an old beater for
$10., pick it up, or post it here for someone w. $10. to scoop up.
I was sort of thinking of painting them the Oklahoma State Colors, as sort
of a healing America thing, but that might just polarize.  What think- folks?

Oh, also, I don't know if I have posting priviledges on M-Net yet.  Could 
someone post something there?
Any ideas about how to get appeals for bikes to students, especially seniors,
who are about to leave for the summer/ever?

That's a good idea Bill, Paint them Bright Orange so everybody knows it's a
communal bike. Or, put an alarm on it so that if a code isn't punched every
evening it's set off.  But, then you have more expense than people would want
to deal with. They could be numbered largely so that if one was stolen the
police could find it. Or liscence plates. If car rentals work why not bikes.

(Anyone can post in the conferences on M-net, Bill.)

I would like the idea, too.  It would have to be very universal, and 
done by a non-sueable entity.  

The good thing about a program like this is that there only has to be
about 1 bike for every 25 or so people.  Most of the time, a bike owned
by an individual just sits.  

It's a real shame that we can't do something like this without worring 
about theft and getting sued.   

(Response 14 sliped in.)

That would be fine James, but bikes can be very easily repainted.  
They would have to have a distinct shape (or something permanent)
to avoid serious problems with theft.

True, but you also have chop shops that do that to cars.
The idea is to deter, not stop. If somebody wants a bike, they will get one
nomatter what you do.

I agree.  I just don't think that having to repaint a bike is enough 
of a deterrent.

That's true. Um, you could have to show proof of legit ID before borrowing
them. That way they could come after you if it wasn't brought back.
And showing somebody a drivers liscence and signing a form saying that 
it is real and you will return it isn't that big of a deal to borrow a bike
for free. When they were doing it in Ann Arbor how long could you borrow
the bike for? Is this a metter of hours, of a day or so? And was all work
volumtary? Like the person who sits with the bikes, cleans them up,
maintanaince, etc...

You just buy them cheap or free.  Naturely, there's "attrition," but you just
have to replace the lost/stolen ones.
I repeat, does anyone have ideas for communicating w. UoM students, especially
seniors, about to leave town?  Many of these may ride old beaters that they'd
happily donate rather than cart home.
>

I do remember when the green bikes were out about ten years ago, that I was
doing some P.R. work for a local bike shop, and among my duties was to let
people know about the allegedly unsafe conditions of these green bikes.

BTW, I have since severed my ties to that local bike shop, as I was becoming
uneasy with the store owner's negative attitude.

Get onto the UofM gopher and look around.

  Re #19, people generally just rode the bikes for transport around the
campus area...you'd find one, ride it to the library, leave it there,
and someone else would find it, ride it to the dorm, and so on.  No locks,
no central locale, no ids, no guards.  Every once in a while, a group of
volunteers would round up those they could find, bring in new bikes and
parts, and fix them up.
 
  Chi1, leaving fliers on kiosks, in businesses, or in campus buildings
would probably be a good way to reach out.  Ads in the Michigan Daily would
have good exposure too.  Though I think a project like this will require
the effort of several people, along with some planning, to be successful.

   Unforunately, I think someone would have to contact the city
governemt and see what idiotic laws would have to be gotten around
in order to do this.

That's true. There's probably a law against being Polygamous with a bicycle.

   There is probably some damned law against leaving a bicycle
unchained.

They could get you for littering or stealing, if the person who next picked
up the bike was cocky. An officer could bring you in on the
grounds that he thought you were stealing it. It's a good oppurtunity for
Police Officers to get those guys that they have been chasing.

I wouldn't be worried 'bout the cops and laws- this has been done before w.o.
hassle.
I heard on the radio that UofM just had graduation, so our big target of donors
has escaped.

Well, that gives you a few months to work on it before they come back.

Fall would probably be a good scavenging season too: students are moving, and
the bike-riding season is a lot closer to ending.

There was a piece on this on PBS (or CNN) a few hours ago.  The "Yellow Bike"
program was essentially what Bill has proposed.  I think the city in the
program was Boston and the bikes were painted a solid color (tires & all).
For a thief to successfully disguise a stolen "Yellow Bike" he would need to
strip the previously chrome parts (handlebars, crank, pedals, rims, spokes) 
as well as replace the non-metal parts (seat, handgrips) which would cost more
than the bike is worth.

An additional feature of the program was that it used volunteer inner city
kids to help maintain the bikes.  The kids learned maintenance and could work
for a bike of their own.  

I have been collecting garage sale bikes with the thought of starting a bike
rental business, but I would gladly donate the first two dozen bikes to such a
program.  Additional bikes can be easily obtained from the annual sherrif's
auction, garage sales, and other contributions.

If the legal issues can be overcome, the next objective would need to be
locating a warehouse to store & repair the incoming bikes.  Some tools
would also be needed.

Let's do it!

kenb, I love you.  Calling all bike mechanics.  I think painting even the
sidewalls of the tires is a great idea to prevent "reprivatization."
Also, does anyone (or several people w. a one car space in garage) have room
for staging/fixup/paintup?
Brother Bill-

I'm all aquiver - how did the project work out in Boston?

That *is* a good idea!  Stripping paint off of spokes must be about 
impossible.  

Personally, I would love such a program and be a frequent user.

I think that's one of the key things. You have to paint/mark the bike in
such a way as to make it *soooo* much work to remove the markings that
all but the most dedicated theif would bother. And one can assume that if
someone *is* willing to put in all the time required to remove all the
markings, he must need the bike very badly and you might as well let him
have it.

I remember hearing about the Ann Arbor "green bikes". Apparently they were
painted a *really* *ugly* shade of green. This served 2 purposes, they were
so ugly that no one would want to own them, and second, it would be easy
to spot one of these bikes becuase no one would *intentionally* paint
their own bike that color.

I think the key is not to come up with some complicated mechanism to
*prevent* someone from stealing these bikes, but to make it so that no
one *wants* to steal one of the bikes. They should be functional, but
not overly so.

1.) Real ugly color painted everywhere.
2.) Single speed, no shifters. Less maintenence, less things to go wrong.
3.) Coaster brakes. Again, simpler design, less maintence, less things to
    go wrong. Less oportunity for vandalism. Someone can wack the cables
    for caliper brakes, it's damn near impossible to break coasters. Also,
    with no calipers, you can put paint on the rims too.
4.) Heavy tires that arn't easily punctured. Has anybody ever tried
    shooting that expanding foam into a bike tire? Yes, it would give a
    much harder ride, but that's the point, don't make these bikes
    attractive to theivs. The hardened foam would make the tires impervious
    to punctures and flats, probably safer too.
    Might be an interesting experiment.

Just be careful not to paint the rims.  That will keep the brakes from
working.

Greg said "coaster brakes". I agree - caliper brakes are too flimsy for
the rough use these bikes would get. However, you don't want to use an
*ugly* paint - you want to choose a *conspicuous* paint, which however is
attractive: the point of the exercise is to induce people to use the
bikes, not shun them because they "wouldn't be seen dead" on them. 

Coaster brakes aren't safe.  They only work on the back wheel, which
provides almost no stopping power.

  Hey, how about removing brakes altogether - that would really
give thieves second thoughts!  :)  Though seriously, I think
the principle Greg described, of making them unattractive, is a
good idea.  I don't know anything about brake safety, but things
along those lines...heavy tires was a great example - safer, less
comfortable, and less theft-worthy!

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss