I've always loved the subject myself, but for a long time it seemed 
that most people thought herb cultivation and use was something for 
old ladies and health-food weirdos of both sexes.  But recently 
there's been broader interest.  

There are many different groups participating in the herb boom: 
alternative medicine practitioners and their patients; the average 
Joe or Josephine who picks up a box of Celestial Seasonings herb 
tea at Kroger one day and likes it; people who like to cook and are 
going nuts now over dill weed, cilantro, etc.; "new" Pagans, 
including Wiccans; "old" believers; people for whom herbs are 
lifestyle signifiers, or an element of "country" decoration, or 
some such.  

I want to hear what anyone has to say about herbs.  Is it a subject 
for you at all?  If so, do you fall into one of the above 
categories or some other?  What experiences can you share regarding 
specific herbs -- medicinal, culinary, whatever?  

(I didn't know whether this belonged in Hippie or Nature or 
Synthesis or...)

145 responses total.

I think talking about herbs is perfectly suited to synthesis. Since I began 
in the Craft herbs have been used in and out of ritual to affect change.
I collect herb uses as much as possible, write it down for future use and
continue searching. Admittedly, if I have a headache I'll ussually take an
aspirin before looking to a less convenient herb!
There is also is major distinction in belief, medicinal and magickal. Some
believe that herbs have "magickal". This may well be the effect manifesting 
i
itself to the amazement of a primitive people, or not...
-phaedrus

I've always had a fondness for plants in general, and love using herbs,
even though I know next to nothing about how to use them well.  The one book
I have on the subject is _Magical_Herbalism_ by Scott Cunningham.  STAY
AWAY FROM THIS BOOK!  I find the writing style annoying, and when all is said
and done, it doesn't even say that much about what herbs are good for what.
Mostly it goes over "magickal gardening", and since their are herbs growing
all over our backyard without any help from me, I really don't worry about
that.

Any recommendations on good herbalism books?

I fall into lots of the categories you specified, md.  I'm a cook who loves
to use them in my favorite recipes, an herbal healer, a pagan, and
I just think drying herbs hanging in the kitchen look great.

It's funny when the talk turns to herbs people have the weirdest reactions. 
I, like Rob, know only basic usage of herbs, which amounts to drinking some
chamomile tea when I have an upset stomach!
But many people think it's way too esoteric, is this the case? Many of the 
herbs that I hear about using are already in my kitchen, seems too easy.
About the Scott Cunningham book, I'd have to agree Rob, he tends to give
lots of traditional info about herbs but not very much that is useful today,
when I have a headache, or the like. But he does make that subject, and I 
think the Craft as a whole feel more accessible.
I'd also ask for good books on herbalism, though I have a feeling the best
learning is probably from a teacher??
-phaedrus

I grew up near Caprilands Herb Farm in Coventry, Connecticut.  What 
inspired this item is that the current Caprilands catalog came in 
the mail the other day and I was delighted to see that the 
matriarch, Adelma Simmons, is still alive and involved in the 
business.  She must be in her eighties now.  

Adelma Simmons is what I mean by an "old" believer: she learned it 
by word-of-mouth from God knows whom; she mixes herb lore with, 
among other things, traditional Christianity (there's a "Saints 
Garden" on the premises with herbs dedicated to each saint) and 
literature (there is also a "Shakespeare Garden" there with all the 
plants mentioned in Shakespeare); she has a devoted staff who in 
turn are learning the lore by word-of-mouth from her; she is a 
precious repository of ancient knowledge.  (Despite the Saints 
Garden, I wonder how well Mrs. Simmons would've fared in Salem.  
Nothing overt, just a general sense of earth-connected power about 
Caprilands and about her.)

1. What are the good retail herb farms around here?  (Meaning SE 
Michigan, northern Ohio, SW Ontario.) 

2. Got any medicinal (preventative or treatment) stories to share?  

3. What are the good mail-order companies?

Re books: 

There's Culpepper's Herbal, which dates back to the 17th (?) 
century.  I've seen modernized editions with color drawings.  
I haven't owned a Culpepper in many years.  I remember thinking it 
was naive and out-of-date.  Nevertheless, I've found echos of 
Culpepper in just about every other herbal I ever read.  

There's also the big modern herbal produced by that British author 
whose name escapes me.  A Ph.D.  (He has his own line of herbal 
teas now.) 

Speaking of herbal teas, I note they've become so popular that 
there are now several brands of *instant* herbal teas on the 
market, including at least three kinds of Ricola, which I had to 
try.  The one I'm sipping at the moment is the "Original Recipe" 
containing angelica root, elder flowers, horehound, hyssop, lemon 
balm, linden flowers, peppermint, sage, thyme and wild thyme.  
(That all comes after the sugar and dextrose on the list of 
ingredients.)  Very credible tasting, although how much other than 
the flavor is left after the freeze-drying process is anyone's 
guess.  Modern thymes!  Culpepper must be spinning in his grave.

I went through our bookshelves over the weekend.  Apart from some 
back issues of Herb Quarterly, the only think we have that's 
exclusively about herbs is a book called _The Way of Herbs_ by 
Michael Tierra.  As the title implies, it has an oriental slant: 
lots of boring (for me, anyway) Yin 'n' Yang macrobiotic material, 
and separate sections for Western herbs and Chinese herbs.  
"Western" = non-Chinese for this author, since it includes herbs of 
Central Asian, Middle Eastern, African and Native American (both 
North and South American) origin.  

If it's specific medicinal applications you want, however, this is 
your book.  It has loads of them, along with detailed instructions 
for making teas, elixirs, pills, ointments, suppositories, you name 
it.  For each herb, Tierra also lists the active chemicals, which 
in some cases (Foxglove, Ma Huang, etc.) are serious business.  
There are also intelligent and responsible warnings about 
indications, contraindications and dosages.  

Someonew gave me a herb, and now I've been magicked!

We got a Reader's Digest contest mailer that was offering a book
called _Magic and Medicine of Plants_, and being, you know, rich
and able to afford an occasional pig-in-a-poke, I ordered the thing

It turns out to be a glossy 500-page field guide with supplementary
sections about preparation of foods, teas, medicinals, etc., the
history of herbalism, and the elements of botany.  As you might
expect of a Reader's Digest publication, it isn't exactly a manual
for Wiccans and New Agers.  It does strike me as very well researched
and comprehensive, though.  The write-up for each plant features
a "Uses" section listing the various medicinal and other uses
to which the plant has traditionally been put, and specifying which
of them, if any, have been confirmed by orthodox medical research.
A black "X" indicates a toxic plant; a red "X" indicates a plant
that'll drop you on the spot.  Marijuana and pennyroyal rate black
X's, for example, and foxglove and lily of the valley rate the red X.
It's surprising how many herbal remedies have been confirmed by
medical research.  Cone flower (Echinacea) really does boost the
immune system, and Ginkgo biloba really does make you smarter.
If having a Reader's Digest book on your shelf wouldn't be just too
horribly infra dig for you, this is is the best modern herbal
I've ever seen.  (Me, I don't care.  "The sage uses what is at
hand; there is no shame in this," to quote a ninja master in some
movie I saw, as he bashed a bad guy over the head with a telephone.)
Highest recommendation.

Btw, the book lists many suppliers of seeds, plants and herb products.
There is also the

     Herb Society of America
     9019 Kirtland Chardon Road
     Mentor, Ohio 44060

Michael,
It's been recomended to me that Golden Seal is good for colds and stuff
like that. What exactly *is* Golden seal?
-pheadrus

According to the new book, goldenseal is Hydrastis canadensis, a plant
in the Ranunculaceae or buttercup family.  It was widely used by the
Native Americans for a host of illnesses.  "Its efficacy as an antiseptic
and in stopping bleeding, even hemorrhaging, is unquestionable."
The pioneers quickly adopted it and it became a mainstay of American
folk medicine.  An alkaloid extracted from the root is used in some
commercially manufactured eyedrops.  

Goldenseal rates a big red "X", sorry to say.  "The alkaloids that cause
this plant's drug action are poisonous in large doses."  I don't think
there's any harm in using goldenseal tea as a topical antiseptic on
cuts and abrasions, or in drinking small amounts of the tea.  I've tasted
goldenseal tea, however, and it's so bad that I can't imagine anyone
wanting to consume large doses of it.  Health food stores sell capsules
containing and Echinacea and goldenseal mixture that is probably very
effective for colds and flu.

I hate to be a killjoy, but it's best to see your family doctor before
you try curing yourself with herbs.  Once your doctor establishes that
it's nothing horrible that s/he can treat, then you can go to the
health food store.

     My interest in herbalism (a new and untutored one I must add) fits into
many of the categories mentioned.  I love cooking with fresh herbs, (I won't
make pesto without fresh basil), and I'm interested in their healing and
magical uses.
     Unfortunately, herbalism, like many new-age topics is poorly if at all
represented in the catalogs of places that record books for the blind.  Can
anyone recommend an alternative learning process that I could use?  Is
anyone here good enough to teach?
     Chris

Re #5 (I'm so desperate I'm answering my own responses now):  I just
found out that Adelma Simmons got married this year, to a man she'd
been "long time companions" with.  She must be 90 if she's a day.

Renaissance Acres is an organic herb farm someplace in the area.  You can
find them in the summertime at the Ann Arbor Farmers' Market.  I have no
idea what sparked their interest in herbs, but I do know that they have
a wide selection of unusual plants (where else in town can you find a
dozen different varieties of basil?), and the couple who owns the place,
particularly the man, is quite friendly and talkative.  Definitely worth
stopping by next summer.

well, popcorn beat me to the mention of renaissance acres.  Wonderful folks.
I've seen their stuff at Whole foods and the co-op, too.

my interests could be a direct quote of mta in response #3.

As to books, there's always the basic manual: John Lust's Herbs.  A favorite
of mine, a bit hard to find, is Dian Dincin Buchman's Herbal Medicine- very
practical, good expanations and stories, not an overwhelming amount of info.
That Chinese one and the Readers Digest both look interesting.

Maybe we should talk to Branwen Gates, who is an herbalist and homeopath in
town, and see if we can organize a class in the winter and/or some walks in
summer.  She does classes now and then, and is quite good.  Chris, I think
your best bet is hands- on with a learning partner or teacher,since a book is
NOT going to give you smell or texture.  If you want, however, I can do some
reading for you- tape or in person- let me know.

My understanding is that Goldenseal does actually function as an antibiotic, 
while echinacea is an immune booster- different actions for different needs.
Goldensea is quite strong, and I would use it carefully; like a prescription
antibiotic, it can wipe out your friendly flora if overused.  I like to make
a burn ointment with a honey base, golden seal, St. John's Wort, plantain and/
or calendula.  Honey promotes healing, sooths and kills bacteria.  Goldenseal
disinfects.  The other three sooth and speed healing.

Actually, for most headaches and colds I FIRST go for herbs or homeopathic
remedies.  I only use store-boughten stuff if I'm really desperate and must
keep going at all costs.  I tend to think the other responses are kinder to
the body and work with it more.  After all, I got sick for a reason...

Sorry, another long response.  Very interesting topic.  Cheers!

Don't apologize.  That was a great response.  (Not long enough,
in my opinion.)  Do you have any prefernces in things like soaps,
shampoo, toothpaste, etc.?

Once, in a fit of ridiculous self-indulgence, I actually bought the
hair-care products that my hair person recommended.  At $25 a pop, this was
a once-only sort of thing, and I don't remember what they were, but I
remember the conditioner in particular had vanilla in it, which made for a
very nice smell when combined with the other things, and my hair was in
better shape than it had been in a long time.

re #17: My sense of smell can be painfully sensitive, so I am one of the few
paganfolk I know who uses almost no incense, oils or perfumes. That said, I
love lavendar- soothing, good for headaches (as a tea or topically), and I can
always tolerate the smell.  Sometimes like a rosewater bath before a circle to
make me feel better about myself and less mundane.  Found some bubble bath for
my son with comfrey in it-- little boys do tend to get bumps, bruises and 
scrapes.  Calendula is even better for topical ouchies.
After Gareth (# 2, just starting to go looking for bumps and scrumps) was born,
my midwife suggested a bath of garlic, uva ursi and sheperds purse.  Really
speeded up healing.
I've used a cup or so of chamomile tea as a hair rinse since I was little. Or
lemon or vinager (diluted) to cut oiliness, or egg for body.  Not very arcane.
We try to avoid toothpaste and stuff with peppermint (goodby Dr. Bonners :))
since we use a lot of homeopathic remedies, and they tend to be antidoted by
such strong aromatics as mint, camphor, eucalyptis or coffee.  There's an 
ayuravedic pink mhyrr toothpaste that I like but Timothy doesn't care for, so
I got him at various times, Toms of Maine Strawberry, "Slimer" grape, or some
pink thing whose name I don't recall, but only a kid could like it :)  
Has anybody had any luck getting kids to take herbal teas?  I can hide tincture
in orange juice or soy milk, have no trouble getting Timothy to take remedies
(I think Gareth is getting the idea.  Interestingly, I think I can tell if its
just the right remedy by how willingly they open their mouths.), but I can't
get him to swallow the most innocuous or pleasant tea, no matter how useful!

Well, I will definitely visit Renaissance Acres in the spring.  
I hope they encourage visitors to roam about and be nosey (so 
to speak).  I'm looking for the kind of place my kids will beg me 
to take them back to visit again afterwards.  I'll eventually 
poke around and come up with an address and directions, but if 
anyone else does so before me, please post them here.  

Also, if Branwen Gates will be giving a class, kami, please let 
us know.  I'll sign up if the dates and times are do-able for me.

Tom's of Maine is good stuff!  Nice slick American packaging 
always reassures me, for some reason, and I'll take New England 
over Calfornia (where so many herbal products seems to come from) 
any day.  I don't know the longterm effect of a daily application 
of lichen and coriander to one's underarms, or propolis and myhrr 
to one's teeth, but it beats aluminum salts and fluoride, in my 
opinion.  It would be nice, though, if Tom and Kate got their 
volume up to the point where they could lower their prices a bit.  
(And maybe blow Proctor and Gamble off the shelves.) 

actually, I don't use Tom's myself because of the chalky taste.  Michael uses
their deoderant with no trouble, and the only problem I ever had was some 
stickiness if I ever had occasion to use commercial stuff without SERIOUS 
washing between.  I have since switched to one of those deoderant stones, and
I'm quite impressed.  
I think Renn. Acres might be a good place for a field trip.  They may have
green houses (I'm almost sure).  Want to go?  How old are your kids, I'm 
always looking for people and things to do with my four year old.

OK...you folks are scaring me now! What's the problem with commercial 
toothpaste and deoderant??!! What's wrong with peppermint?? AHHHHHhHH!!!!!!!
I admit to being more than a little ignorant about this stuff.
Ok, I'm not moving till I hear what the problem is...ok, maybe a little.
-Phaedrus

nothing's wrong with it , you just can't be a card-carrying granola and use
products of the "military-industrial complex" (except cars, VCRs- while decry
ing TV- computers, etc.) :) :) :)  About peppermint: lovely tummy medecine,
but strong aromatic which tends to negate the effects of homeopathic remedies,
which we use pretty constantly.

Personally, I'd rather die of a cold than give up peppermint.  We
have some growing outside the house, and I make tea during the
spring and fall.  (Not the summer, though, the kitchen gets way too hot!)

I like peppermint, too.

Re 21, my daughter will be eight on April 3, and my son will
be ten on May 28.  I envision something no earlier than mid-May
or early June.  High summer might be best of all.  Let's keep
it in mind. 

I'm not sure my mind has that much memory :) But do bring it up again.

I for one would be interested in going to Ren Acres sooner than summer, if
there's anything to see.  Talk to me in two or so weeks after I've recovered
from the current crunch, and I might be interested in going with some
combination of several different people who would also be interested.

Oh goody, a Grerbspedition.

Dr Blop!  I didn't know you hung out here.  Would you and that
woman you're cuddling with in the Dteroit Free Press picture
be interested in Grerbspeditioning with us?

Quite possibly.  I don't know nuthin' about herbs, but I'll do
anything to get out of this study with the goose lamp and the
Sylvester coffee mug.

Great!  If Ren A have heated greenhouses we could go there any
old time, I guess.  I think that's been suggested already.  But
I want to go in the spring or summer, too.  A well-planned herb
garden in summer can be paradisal.

someone remind me to get on the phone next week.  why wait? !

Get on the phone next week!

thanks for the reminder.  very timely :)

Would you like another?

yes, next week if I don't get to this by wednesday or so.  Thanks.

Has anybody already *been* to Renaissance Acres?  I'm not sure the public
is welcome to visit there -- I think it's somebody's home.

Where is this place??
I guess it would be a little weird to walk in and start touring while the 
family is getting ready to eat dinner!?
-phaedrus

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss