This item is for system announcements (new computer equipment on Grex, 
system upgrades, Grex meetings, etc.).  Personal announcements should go 
back in item 2; Grex system *problems* belong in the next item (#4). 

139 responses total.

> Thu Sep 30 23:03:54 EDT 2004: Grex's system and user home directory disk
> partitions have been backed up to tape.                         -gelinas.

Many thanks to gelinas (and anyone else who may have assisted) in carrying out
this disk backup exercise.

Yes, many thanks to Joe (who I think did it all himself).

Thanks for restoring the parenting cf!

Thanks, Joe!

Thanks JOe!

thankxxxxx gelinas!

re 3 He didn't !

The new Grex server is inching closer to coming into service.  I've
written up a summary of what changes to expect at

   http://www.unixpapa.com/nextgrex.html

Thanks Jan - that's a nice summary.

Nice writeup, Jan.  Thanks loads for all the work you've put into this.

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You'll have to pass a DHS background check and show up to at least one Grex
feeding frenzy..er Grexwalk.

Re resp:8: Thanks for posting this.  It's really reassuring to know that 
progress is being made.

Re resp:11: That's a seperate issue.  Since it's a bylaw issue, the way 
to get it changed is to make a proposal in coop and convince people to 
vote for it.

The feeding frenzy is the Grex Lunch, not the walk.  :P

A change in the bylaws to not require ID would be a violation of state
law. The corporation *must* be able to produce a membership list,when
required by law, showing legal names and addresses (it does not have to
make it public, however). 

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I have posted the relevant sections of the Michigan Consolidated Laws. 
(Any single, or married, lawyers here, to repeat this to mfp?)

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 re #15:  I read the section of the Michigan code that you posted
 and must have missed the part that unambiguously supports your
 position.. 

My wife doesn't think I'm single - singular, perhaps.

What's ambiguous about "shall make and certify a complete list of the
shareholders or members entitled to vote"? How can you do that without
ID? But, consider also 450.2485:

"The corporation shall keep at its registered office....records containing
the names and addresses of all shareholders or members.......A corporation
shall convert into written form without charge any record...upon written
request of a person entitled to inspect them."

This sort of requirement is scattered throughout the MCL. It is remiss of
directors of a non-profit to not be familiar with the body of non-profit
law anyway, in order to avoid mistakes in creating bylaws and acts. 

> What's ambiguous about "shall make and certify a complete list of the
> shareholders or members entitled to vote"?

The ambiguous part is what level of diligence is required on the part of
the corporation to ensure that the information is correct.  It says nothing
about ID.

> How can you do that without ID?

I still don't see anything in the law that requires ID.

        I'm moving to the idea of ID verifing all (new) accounts.

Tim, non illegitimati carborundum est.  ;)

re #15
"required by law, showing legal names and addresses"
You forgot to add some other stuff not mentioned like social security numbers,
favorite color, favorite soft drink, and number of toes on the left foot. ;)

The laws for non-profits plainly state you just need a list of members.
PERIOD.  The requirement for ID is a fabrication by Cyberspace, Inc.

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"Fabrication" or not, it's the way grex "wants" it.  You don't like it, 
then have a member propose a change to the bylaws.  All this continued
complaining is simply childish and accomplishes nothing.

I'm a member DISCUSSING it. Go soak your head.

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 re #27:  And you're DISCUSSING it in the SYSTEM ANNOUNCEMENT items.
 HOW ABOUT rounding up your RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION and CAPITAL LETTERS
 and taking them BOTH to the CO-OP CONFERENCE?

  re #29:  MaYBe i WIll Do ThaT mISter DeWEy dECimAl SySTem LIbRaRiAN.

re #29
Why are you calling me swear words and then censoring it? That's not a way
to behave in the system problems item.  ;)

(This is the Grex System Announcements item.  Discussion about any Grex
policy is certainly appropriate, but the Coop conference might be a 
better place for it.)

Complaining is not improving grex.  There is a well-defined way to propose
and possibly enact a change to the bylaws.

Which is incidentally only available to people who have decided to throw down
their right to privacy in the name of GreX.  How many people can you possibly
expect to do this?  Incidentally, the number is dropping every month.

No one's privacy is violated by having to produce ID for membership. The
only records kept by Grex are names and addresses. 

No, that's not true, Rane.  We keep copies of ID on file in case a member
does something bad with their internet privileges, adn law enforcement needs
to track them down.  As I said above, this has never happened.

Re resp:35: You don't need to be a member to post in co-op, last I checked.

This incessant whining is getting old, especially since, given the
attitudes you've expressed in the past, I'm sure you have no intention
of becoming a member even if the ID requirement is dropped.

to continue 37, (if I may) But that doesn't mean it won't, which is why 
we need them.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss