Just recently, I went in for a physical (oh joy, oh rapture), only to find
out that I (most likely) had a thyroidal deficiantly.  So far, all I know is
that this causes your metabolism to be a little screwy (i recently dropped
8 lbs for no reason, and now can't lose it when i'm trying to), and it causes
joint pain (boy do i have plenty!)

Basically, I want to learn as much about it as possible, since i know so
little.

(The tests aren't back yet, but since my mom and her dad both have it, and
I seem to have a few other signs of it, we think it's a sure bet.)

31 responses total.

Not enough information in #0 to say much specific to your case, but Graves
disease is much more common than most people think and can account for some
of what you describe.  If you recall, Barbara Bush had it.  Usually, even
though you'd think that "low thyroid" would mean you need to help it along,
most often the treatment for Graves Disease is to remove the thyroid (either
by surgery or with radioactive injections like iodine, etc), and then
suppliment with the appropriate amount of thyroid suppliments.

This is odd.  I'm going to contradict a doctor.  Graves Disease, also known
as exophthalmic goiter, is *not* the same as hypothyroidism.  In fact, it's
quite the opposite, as it causes the thyroid to produce *too much*. 
Hypothryoidism is a deficiency of thyroid, or not enough.  Which appears to
be what is being spoken of here.

The symptoms of hypothyroidism are a severe slowing down of the
metabolism, resulting in weight gain, puffiness, and water retention.  In
addition, because the thyroid effects and is effected by other glands and
regulators of the body such as the pituitary, ovaries and testicles, and
the hypothalamus, one may see a change in menstrual cycle, libido, and
immune system.  If one is still at an age where growth is expected, this
growth may be slowed down or stopped.

Typical treatment is to replace the missing thyroid elements, known as T3
and T4, with either synthetic or natural supplements.  Usually, the
synthetic thyroid replacements of Synthroid or Levothroid are sufficient
for the patient to reach a stable metabolic rate; however, these
synthetics contain only one of the two thyroid elements.  It has been
determined in scientific experiment that 20 percent of the general
populace needs to have *both* thyroid elements replaced, as one
element alone will not work at all without its partner.  For this 20
percent, replacement has to be done using natural thyroid.

Usually, once hypothyroidism is discovered the patient is on replacement
therapy for the rest of his or her life; however, a small percentage of
people have taken replacements for a few years and had the thyroid begin
functioning again after that time.  Replacement is in once-a-day pill form
and requires frequent testing at the beginning to assure the patient is
receiving the appropriate amounts.  After stability is achieved, the
patient should be tested regularly at least once and preferably twice a
year to insure the proper levels are being maintained.

How do I know all this?  I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism over nine
years ago, and I'm one of the 20 percent who needs natural thyroid.  Like
you, I wanted to know as much as I could about it.  Talk with your doctor
for reading material on this condition.

I believe rickyb is a podiatrist not an MD.

actually, tests have come back negative!!!  :)  (very happy/surprised meg...:)
i still want to know about it, tho....it wouldn'tsurprise me to wind up with
it since my mom and gradpa have it....

Yes Mary, and krc also knows I'm a podiatrist, not a "real doctor"  ,^}

Kathleens description is accurate, and, oddly enough, does not conflict with
my understanding of Graves disease.  While endocrinology is not my specialty,
and I would need to do some specific research/review to discuss in more
detail, my understanding is along these lines:
  _hypothyroid_ is a condition in which the body has too little thyroid
  hormones.  _hyperthyroid_, accordingly, would be the opposite.

  Graves Disease indeed is an enlarged thyroid (goiter) which does, or has
  the _potential_ to produce too much thyroid hormones (hyper...).

BUT, what krc didn't take into consideration in her description is how the
human body homeostatic control mechanisms complicate what is otherwise common
sense.  When there is a large thyroid producing too much hormone, _sometimes_
the control mechanisms shut down the thyroid production (just like your
thermostat turns off your furnace when the temp reaches what you set it to).
When these control mechanism go haywire, the thyroid production can become
shut down even before there is enough hormone available (hypo...), and this
CAN come from an otherwise (by common sense) enlarged/over-active thyroid.

Did that make sense to non-physiologists?  I mean no disrespect in the
question, but this is why there are several medical specialties.  I don't
think anyone can fully understand all of the intricite homeostatic responses
our bodies make on a moment-to-moment basis.  The real miracle is that things
work so well as often as they do!

THey have to. We couldn't be discussing the question if they didn't.

Actually, rickyb is a *damned good* podiatrist, as I am willing to testify.
I'll show you the almost invisible scar from the surgery he performed on my
right foot and tell you all about the improvement in the quality of my life
now that I'm free from pain, too.

MDs are not the only ones who can be called doctors, although the AMA would
certainly like you to believe that.  There are doctors of podiatry, doctors
of chiropathy and doctors of osteopathy, and I'm sure that isn't the complete
list.  DOs are medical doctors as are MDs.  The main difference is a
philosophical one.  DOs treat the patient aas a whole, not the symptom as if
it were separate from the person.  Because of this, DOs tend to teach their
patients more about how to work with their bodies and how to listen to their
bodies.  DOs are aware of how much a person's mental state can effect his or
her physical well-being.

Podiatrists specialize in the feet and ankles.  I have had trouble in that
area most of my life, but I cannot begin to list all the things I learned from
rickyb once I started going to him.  It gives me a new appreciate for these
intricate constructions we walk on and abuse with cheap shoes and warped ideas
of what is attractive.

That said, I'd like to note that the most common problem with Graves Disease
is not having the hypothalamus turn off the thyroid production, but rather
for the thyroid to begin to produce as if the governor in the mechanism is
broken -- which it is.  One of the most visible symptoms of this is the
"bug-eyed" look people suffering from hyperthyroidism and Grave's Disease.
The most common treatment for this is to *kill* the thyroid with radiation
and put the patient on supplements for the rest of his or her life.  

A couple of my cousins by marriage have Grave's Disease, so when I was
diagnosed as hypothyroid we sat down and compared notes.  I'm a regular fount
of information on the topic. ;^)

Thanks, Kathleen, for the enthusiastic complement!  Actually, the "real
doctor" remark was made tounge-in-cheek.  As you've come to know, I feel a
large part of the art of medicine is the ability to educate our patients as
fully as possible about their condition/s and help them mobilize their bodies
and minds resources to assist in symptom resolution and healing.  Also, as
a surgeon, there are technical qualities to how tissues are handled and
sculptural techniques used in bone reconstruction and, to a lesser degree,
soft tissue surgery as well.  I'm glad your scar is 'nearly invisible' and
you've done so well.  A good deal of that is attributable to your compliance
with your surgical and post-operative rehabilitation plan.  I was not unlike
the conductor of a symphony played by the cellular and biochemical (and
unknown) instruments of your physiology.  But... let's not plan any encore,
heh.   ;-)

leonardo da vinci called the foot a work of art, and a masterpeice of
engineering.  It's a "bit" more complex than most folks credit.

I truly wish more shoe designers felt that way!

I agree with otter!  Fortunately, the latest styles are rounded toes, and I
for one intend to stock up on them.  I used to find them so comfortable I
could even run in them (if necessary).  But, a lot of manufacturers don't give
enough support to the arch in their high heels.  I used to love wedgies for
that reason.  I like my shoes to look reasonably stylish, but comfort is the
priority.

I live for the day I can have someone make my shoes for me. Ever try to find
a 6EEE? This is a size found only in nature, not in stores. And now back to
your regularly scheduled topic. . .

i've fouind that a full lenght arch support pad REALLY helps...i paid $20 for
mine, and i can put them into any of my shoes, and my last pair lasted 6
months of working full-time retail...i was quite pleased with them.  :)

This response has been erased.

i was AMAZED at how much is attached to your thiroid!!!!  why should joints
hurt because the thyroid be defeciant?  :)

Valerie, I am amazed.  I, also, have been on Synthroid for a long, long time.
I never knew about the change in product formulation.  I wonder if this could
be the reason for my periodic freezing feet and hands (which never used to
happen).  Thank you for telling me.  

This response has been erased.

what I am  curious about is:  Before I was pregnant with my first child the
doctor diagnosed me with low thryoid..gave me thyroid medicationa nd I felt
better after a while..then I got pregnant..and they doubled the dosage until
8 months after he was born and then..took me off of it completely..and my
matabolism has been screwd up since..now..they test me periodically and
sometiems it is low and sometimes it is not but  they don't medicate me
anymore.. but now..would all of this screw my system up?
I h have horibly dry skin..and gain weight easily..sluggish..and ache

Tempest, your thyroid is low.  Find a different doctor and get another
opinion.  I've had an acclaimed endocrinologist who screwed up my whole system
even though he allegedly knew what he was doing.  Don't trust them if you know
you don't feel good.  Keep going until you find one who will help you.

I have  had 6 different doctors and now I have mostly physician assistants..
I don't feel paid attention to..I jsut had another blod test and tomorrow
(monday) I find out the results..one of which will be thyroid and sugar in
the blood

Hi again, Valerie, you are everywhere!  Probably irrelevant, but you can get
thyroid deficiency symptoms by eating a diet in which you don't add salt to
things.  I was cold all the time, and a friend suggested eating kelp.  I
happened to have laver around, and after eating two packages of it in one
month, am comfortable at 60 degrees (dressed warmly, we conserve on heat),
wherease I was cold at 72 dressed warmly before.  We don't cook with salt,
to which iodide is added.  Packaged stuff has non-iodide salt.  Kelp and other
seaweeds have sodium potassium magnesium calcium and iodine, and lots of B
vitamins, also C and D, and laver is rather tasty even by itself.  You can
supposedly buy powdered kelp and use it instead of salt.  Salt (sodium
chloride) causes calcium loss as well as high blood pressure.  Kelp can be
boiled in soup, or added to stir-fries without even presoaking (if you want
the extra minerals from sea water), but is rather tough going uncooked.  It
is also one of the few (only?) sources of omega-3 fatty acids for vegans.

There is controversy over whether salt causes high blood pressure. It
aggravates high blood pressure if one already has it, but is not a cause
(according to recent notices). It is, incidentally, easy to pick
mistakenly up uniodized salt at the store, when unless you eat a lot of
fish midwesterners should use iodized salt (or some other iodine
supplement (as above). 

FOr at least some people, salt causes high blood pressure.  They have some
metabolic problem with their potassium-sodium balance.  Sometimes eating a
lot of potassium fixes the problem, it they insist on eating sodium.
Packaged foods, I think, are produced wtih uniodized salt, as some people
cannot tolerate the iodine.   And restaurants may use the uniodized stuff.
Eating foods grown in other parts of the country will help, since the Great
Lakes region is very low in iodine in the soil.  If you are trying to eat
locally grown vegetarian food, without adding salt, there is the choice of
vitamin and mineral supplements or seaweed, the latter tasting better.  (I
have not yet found a source of locally grown seaweed, you would probably have
to grow it with iodine supplements, so we buy the Chinese product that China
imports from Canada.)  I am still trying to find out how much B-12 there is
in kelp and laver and tempeh, which have lots of minerals and vitamins and
essential fatty acids.

Well, time to reopen this for a few....:)

Valerie:  My mother says that it would cost her about $12 for a bottle of 100
Synthroid pills...without insurance....it costs her $5 a month with
insurance....you ight want to check on the bigger bottle theory if you are
relatively stable.

Does anybody know what Hashimotos is?  I just went in for blood tests, and
was asked if there was any Hashimotos, a type of low thyroid, in my
family...but I'm sortof curious what the difference between regular and
Hasimotos is.

Test results will be in next week, but due to everything we've found, I'm most
likely pretty low...between the goiter, and I'm now weighing more then I EVER
have in my l9ife, and just keep dragging through the days...:)  But if I'm
not, the Dr. said that she was going to put me on a low level of meds. just
to keep the goiter down...

   Hashimoto's Thyroiditis
   _________________________________________________________________
   
   Hashimoto's thyroiditis, also referred to as autoimmune thyroiditis
   and chronic lymphocytic thyroiditis, is a chronic inflammatory
   glandular autoimmune disease. An autoimmune reaction to proteins in
   the thyroid is the underlying cause of Hashimoto's thyroiditis. There
   is evidence of a genetic predisposition in the development of
   Hashimoto's thyroiditis. It is not uncommon for persons with
   autoimmune thyroid disease to have other coinciding autoimmune
   disorders. Approximately 25 percent of patients with Hashimoto's may
   develop pernicious anemia, diabetes, adrenal insufficiency, or other
   autoimmune diseases.
   
   Another thyroid related autoimmune disease is Graves' disease. The
   disease process can eventually destroy the thyroid, resulting in
   hypothyroidism; but usually the person has an enlarged thyroid gland
   with normal or mildly abnormal thyroid function tests. Persons with
   Hashimoto's thyroiditis have autoantibodies against several different
   proteins in their thyroid gland. A family history of thyroid disease
   is not unusual.
   
   Although men and women of any age can develop this disease, it is most
   common in women between the ages of 30 or 50 where the ratio of female
   to male is fifty to one.
   


Found by searching with Altavista on "Hashimoto" and "thyroid" and then
more narrowly on "Hashimoto's thyroiditis".

There was also mention of someone with Hashimoto's thyroiditis having
several miscarriages due to thyroid hormone imbalances.  My mother had
several miscarriages when she was hypothyroid, before she eventually had
surgery and then took thyroid hormones, which seemed to fix the problem.

It's also in the Merck Manual.

What is the Merck Manual?

Rane's bible, if it's not in Merck, it doesn't exist. :>
I'll let Rane answer your question in more useful detail.

The Merck Manual is (2844 page) handbook whose purpose is "to provide useful
clinical information to practicing physicians, medical students, interns,
residents, and other health care professionals". There is a "home edition"
which waters down the technical language. Both are published by Merck & Co,
Rahway, NJ. You can order them from the Merck web page.  (The Merck Manual
is different from the Merck Index. The latter is a compilation of the
properties of chemical compounds.)

keesan's little 'dig' at me is because I observed that something she had
put forward (I don't remember what it was) was "not in the Merck Manual
(or, maybe it was the Index). She likes to distort that to mean I was saying
it thereby did not exist. What it would mean is that the compilers of the
Manual (or Index) did not see fit to include it, which implies but does not
establish that it is something of lesser import, or that it is a shortcoming
of the Manual (or Index). I often want to look up chemical compounds that
are not in the Merck Index - after all, it only includes 10,100 compounds
while there are several hundred-thousand known. 

the merk manual is also available on-line.  i'm at a different workstation
than usual or i'd provide the url.  experience with it (in med school, and
since) is that it very comprehesively general.  it covers nearly everything,
but with the most basic detail.  it is not uncommon to find multiple
conditions with the same (or very similar) descriptions.  this is as in
life/med, and is why you most often need the experience of clinical practice
to make best use of resources such as this.

A problem in using it is, of course, given the symptoms to find the malady.
This is where medical training and experience is vital. 

I am currently attempting to determine why I have been cold for the past
several years, and there can be various causes, including thyroid problems
(lack of iodine is one cause), or deficiences of iron, B12, or folate, or
other causes of anemia such as leukemia, or simply weight loss.  It is an
interesting experiment, and I am inclined towards the weight loss hypothesis,
since I have been too busy to eat regularly for the past few years, but I am
also trying iodine (seaweed), iron (rusty nails soaked in water used to cook
rice), B12 (1/4 of a 1000 mg tablet daily for the past few days), and will
if these do not work try folate supplements, and then gaining weight (no more
12 hour marathons volunteering at Kiwanis, yesterday I left at 4 pm), and if
all else fails get my blood tested for anemia (microcytic or macrocytic) and
maybe ferritin (iron deficiency) or even B12 deficiency.  Interesting
experiment, it started being a problem when the city building dept. forced
us to work through the winters on a house we are building - a combination of
being frozen all the time, stress, and no time to cook, plus Jim decided to
be a vegan which makes the diet rather shorter on calories than it was. 
(There is a limit to how much rice and potatoes fit in a stomach, and we are
also not supposed to be eating refined foods).  Can thyroid deficiencies be
a problem even when eating enough iodine?  No feelings of fatigue, but also
relatively frequent minor viral infections (swollen throat when I get frozen,
has happened often over the past three years, and digestive infections), which
are supposedly thyroid related.  Gaining ten pounds would probably help.
And the house is insulated so we dont' have to freeze again.

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