I'm considering buying a kitchen implement that runs at 220 volts.  My stove,
also, runs at 220 volts.  There is only one 220 outlet in my entire house,
and it's behind the stove, where it belongs.
 
I don't *necessarily* need both the stove and this additional implement
running at the same time, but it would be *convenient* if they could.  I'd
like to use one of the burners on the stove at the same time I'm using this
other implement.
 
1.  Can I go to the hardware store and find a 220 volt "Y" connector so that
    I can do this?
 
2.  Why not?
 
(For those who wonder, the implement is a 6.5 gallon plastic vessel with
a heater and thermostat attached.  The plastic can withstand boiling 
temperatures without stress.)

55 responses total.

Hmm.  It all depends on (a) how much work you'd like to put into this,
and (b) what the power requirements of this are.  I presume europeans
find it useful to buy "120 to 220" converters just as we find it
useful to buy the opposite.  Or, one of the older US 120/220 converters
(any that's transformer based) could be rewired to work in reverse;
a 1:2 step up transformer will work just fine as a 2:1 step down
transformer.  Or, if you are willing to rewire the house, things
may become much more trivial.  Turns out almost all american households
today are supplied with 220 V anyways (that's how your stove works),
so it's not too hard to hook up additional outlets.  One in the
basement near the fuse box would be essentially trivial.  Bringing one
out further away might be a bit more tricky.  Or, yet another possibility:
if you can find 2 110V outlets that are on opposites sides of neutral,
you can get 220 V that way.  The dangers from screwing up are fairly
minimal for a heater -- either it won't work it all, or it'll get
half voltage and work poorly.  That would be bad for an air conditioner,
but shouldn't hurt a heater at all.  You can always use a voltmeter
to check the possibilities, of course.  I guess that's your "Y"
connector, as I think about it.  I doubt you could buy it, but
if you can find the right sort of female 220V outlet, it should
be trivial to wire one up.

I understand this European equipment has also an European (non-british)
connector. I would suggest that you make sure that the protective ground
is connected to protective ground properly, not to neutral. Also check
if this piece of equipment has the protective ground connected to any metal
parts outside and/or metal parts coming in contact with the fluid. Also
using a fault detection circuit is a must if I had done it. Fault detection
circuits detect if any of the current your euipment is using gets lost (over
your body for example) and disconnect quickly. Maybe someone is more
knowledgeable about their types. There are different classes of it for
various uses (such as in the garden, in the bathroom, ??)

Of course, if you overload the circuits the breaker for the stove would turn
them all off. Add up the watts, and see if you go over the limit.

We need a wiring conference here. ;-)

This device isn't European, its high-wattage.  They make a 110 volt version,
but it doesn't heat fast or well enough.  The use of a single additional
2600 watt burner on the stove shouldn't blow the 30-amp or 60-amp fuse.
Not breaker.  This house is circa 1954.  I'm unwilling to re-wire or
add new 220 connections, as the basement ceiling is made of celetex and
can't be removed/replaced cheaply or easily.  I don't want to add a 220
connection at the fuse box, due to its location.
 
Does this help?

Why don't you add a second outlet above or below the current one.  
If you aren't exceeding the current capability of the circuit, you
can just wire the two outlets in parallel.

Either that or have someone add a second 220v circuit.  Should be no big
deal if there is room in the breaker box.

Klaus, I can't do that do to expense - to get it where it has to go.  If it
were *any* old place, then next to the fuse box would be fine.  Unfortunately,
that's the wrong place.
 
Dan, you're idea has merit (to me, anyway).  Any comments on that parallel
hookup?  Isn't this sort of what I meant by a "y" connection?
 
Somewhat like the 2 female connectors on the standard 110 box.

I guess if you know how to handle the protective ground stuff, it should work.
I still would add a fault current breaker.

You can probably obtain a y-connector in a good hardware store, or build one e
easily enough.  You just need one plug and two sockets.  Just keep the same
wires to the same pin positions in each plug and jack, you don't need to know
which is which or what colors are normally used or anything, just use thick
enough wire and you're all set.

BTW, Marcus alluded to this, but I don't think anyone mentioned it
specifically.  There aren't really any 220 volts wires in a home in the US,
there are two lines in inverted phase entering the house.  One is at +110
volts while the other is at -110 volts, so they get up to 220 volts apart.
Some appliances use this 220-volt ac signal directly, I think the heater
here just has two separate elements drawing off each line.

Naw, it's a single 220 vac element.  These voltages are all relative. If
you measure voltage from either of the live wires coming into your house
to ground, you'll get about 110 vac.  If you measure between these two
wires, you'll get about 220 vac.  The reason Josh wants to use 220 vac
is because Power = Current X Voltage.  If you double the voltage, you
halve the current for the same power output.  i.e. smaller wire required
for the circuit and a smaller fuse in the box.  Most 220 vac circuits can
deliver 6,600 Watts, some more (30A X 220 vac).

I think most range heating elements have the wattage rating stamped into
their mounting bracket.  Take this figure and add it to the power rating
of the element of your "hot water tank".  Go to your breaker box and see
what size fuses (there should be 2) you have on your stove circuit (30A?)
and multiply this value by 220 for power available.  Take the difference
and if it's positive go out and do the "Y" thing.  If it's negative, you
will have to make some sacrifices in what is turned "on" or you'll blow
fuses.  If you want to be super safe and maybe up to code, install a
ground fault interrupter.  Otherwise make sure that all the metal parts
in your "tank" are well grounded, including the heating element itself,
and it will be as safe as your range is currently.

You should be able to get the parts at any good hardware or electrical
store.  Make a detailed drawing of the plug currently on your range.
There are several variations on 220 vac plugs, and they all look the
same!       Good luck!

Ehm, I hope this thing is designed for 220 use, if it was designed for 110,
it will give 4 times the heat -- that will blow it up soon.

It was designed for 220.  Honest.  Just like an electric range or an electric
dryer.
 
(Its a mashing tun.  "What's that?" you ask.  A device for heating 6 gallons
of liquid to specific degrees F, like 122, for a proteolitic enzyme activity.
Then, moved to 152-158 F, for a variety of diastatic activity.  Later,
the temperature will be moved to 212 F for another variety of activities.
 
All of these have to do with converting starches to sugars for eventual
consumption by yeast.  'Nuff said.)

kind of breadmaker???

Beer. This is the beer guy.
Or, some form of alcoholic beverage.
They have huge mash vats at the Jack Daniels distillery. I leaned way
far over one, once, and inhaled deeply. Snapped back so fast I almost 
lost my glasses.

"The beer guy?"  Sheesh.  But yes, for exacting temperature "step-mashing"
to make beer from grain.  Not to mash corn to make whiskey, which is
heavily taxed and difficult to license.
 
Beer and wine, on the other hand, can be made in small quantities without
being taxed.  But none of this has to do with electricity, does it?

Interesting, I didn't know the beer making procedure.

Well, there are many ways to go about it.  I'm just trying to complicate
my methodology.  I've been brewing for about 5 or 6 years without a mashing
tun, by using malt extracts and by small-scale mashing on the stove top
(or even in the microwave).

I wonder if anyone in the kitchen conference would be interested in making
beer? Would you like to enter an item there on how to make beer?

I have entered two recipes there.  It didn't spark a tremendous amount
of interest.
 

Yeah, you've got to be someone who's both into going to some lengths in
preparing food, and really into beer.

I kind of suspected it was some sort of incubator of brews.  The
interesting question, however, is the power and/or current rating
of this device.

It's very probably that if you try the 'Y' thing you're going
to have to deal with long cords draped inconvenient distances,
to get to two sockets of the opposite polarity (so as
to get that 220 V).  You may want to think very carefully
about the location for this device & its cord.  Or, are you
talking about a "Y" to go between the stove & its outlet?
Mmmm.  I'd think real hard about things before going with
anything like that.  Stoves can consume a *lot* of current.
That "Y" better have some pretty thick conductors in it.
You're probably better off wiring a separate outlet, and
leaving the Stove alone.

Is this a stand-alone stove?  If so, perhaps you could punch a hole
in the side and mount an outlet there. 

re 20: Brian, I brew because of the fabulous variety, quality, and
freshness that are impossible to find in commercial brew.
 
re 21:  Marcus, I plan on making a one-outlet 220 circuit into a two-outlet
circuit.  Its got to be more than 30 ampere, as I've got 1 2600 watt burner,
three 1600 watt burners, plus oven/broiler at unknown wattages.  7,400 watts
at 220 volt is 33.6 Amps.  I planned on using only the single 2600 watt
burner at the same time as the mashing tun.
 
re 22: Dan, that's a great idea!  That way, I don't have to pull the stove
out from the wall to connect things up!  Unfortunately, this is a 50's era
stove and you can't GET the skins off of it, and I wanted to do as little
work as possible.  For example, sticking a plug that goes into the existing
outlet and has two outlets on it for the stove and the new heater (a "Y",
marcus) is really what I'd like to have.
 
I've heard that 220 outlets have special shapes for their amperage.  Here's
an ascii picture of mine:
 
               \ /
                |

Like I said, there are several flavors of 220 vac outlets.  Draw an
accurate picture of what you now have, including spade angles, widths
and keying features.  Doing so will reduce the number of trips to
the electric store, unless your the lucky sort.  As mentioned above,
make sure the wire gauge is heavy enough to carry the current.  #10
wire is rated 33A continuous duty for wires in conduit or bundles.
Don't go any smaller than 10 A.W.G.

re # 23 - exactly what I said. :)

We'll the picture I drew was from memory, Klaus.  I did do something bright
today, by checking the fuse block.  2 35 amp fuses.  So, at least, the
circuit is fused to 70 amp.  Does anyone have a Wedemyer catalog?

They might be 35 amps for each phase (serial) to prevent each one against
ground shorts????

Huh?

I think he means there is one fuse for each 110V line, which there must be.
But I don't think you can add them, the same 35 amps (or whatever) runs back
and forth over both lines at once.

Right.  Since the two fuses are in series as far as 220 vac is concerned
you can NOT add them together!  You have a 220 vac circuit capable of
delivering 35 Amps. i.e 35 A X 220 vac = 7,700 Watt circuit.

Don't go to We-don't-have-it-mire.  Madison Electric out on Jackson Rd.
would be your best bet.

Ok.  35 amp.  Now, tell, me, how come, for large meals, a la Thanksgiving,
I can have all four burners and the stove running at the same time?

I mean all four burners on the stove and the oven running at the same time.
Sorry.

The resistors might be connected different ways when you activate different
levels. There are lots of possibilities of switching the resistors in
combination. Ground=G, X-Phase=X, Y-Phase=Y :
The most common I know are
X-Y
X-G, Y-G
X-G, Y-G, X-Y
some middlepoint M,    X-M, Y-M, M-G

Your stove could just switch everything around when necessary to adjust the
max power. Some burners are adjusted by (time-on)/(switching period), and
when that burner is off, you'll heat something else.

Just playing with the possibilities, I really don't know how your stove works.
Does your stove not specify the maximum current and power consumption on
a metal plate attched either to the inside of the oven door or back of the
stove? If not you might be able to call the company and ask about it.

Its 35 years old, but I'll check it.  Thanks!

Any way you slice it, all the power you have available is 7,700 watts.
220 vac X 35 A = 7,700 W.  (110 vac X 35 A)+(110 vac X 35 A)=7,700 watts.
The maximum power you stove can consume, without blowing a fuse is 7,700
watts.  If the total power of all your elements adds up to more than 
7,700, then, as Mastafa points out, some priority switching must be going
on.  There may still be some plumbers schematic glued to the back or 
bottom of the stove which may expose some "secrets".

Or 2600 W is the peak power drawn by the burners.

Actually, the burners probably do consume a bit more power when they're
first turned on then when they heat up.  Most "normal" materials (ie,
not semi-conductors) have their resistance go up when the temperature
goes up.  So it's possible you could blow the circut by turning
*everything* on all at once.

It's also possible that your stove just is plain drawing a bit more
than the fuse and circuit are theoreticaly capable of supplying.
Fuses are generally not high precision instruments.  Neither are
resisters, for that matter, and that's basically what your
stove is.  A 10% tolerance would not be an unlikely figure,
hard as that might be to believe.  It's not like mechanics, where
being off a bit means it doesn't work.

What is the total power consumed by the stove?

No, fuses are not precise.  But it gives one a number to work with.
As a matter of fact, one should not draw the full rated current from
a given circuit.  One should have about a 10% overhead.

Ovens only go "on" once in a while, anyway - when the temp drops below 
the level it's set at. It could certainly cycle off the burners while
the oven is on for a moment.

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