Maybe somebody here can help me out before I "stumble" onto some solution that
may work even if i don't understand why...

I've been using a 14.4 modem with a 486/66 and either telix (dos) or Win3.1
with Trumpet winSock when I connect to my ISP.  I was recently gifted a new
33,600 voice/fax/data modem, which is capable of lots of things I've never
used before such as voice mail, caller ID, voice and data simultaneously, even
television data throughput.

Installation is (was) exceedingly simple.  I just removed the 14.4 internal
modem and inserted the 16-bit ISA 33.6 modem.  I loaded the windows
communication package which came with it but there are no special drivers
required for Win3.1.

I _assumed_ I could just access my ISP as before, at a faster rate, but no
luck.  I can hear it dial, hear the noise of the 'handshake', but it then goes
silent, then the noise seems to make a 2nd, 3rd and 4th attempt, then I get
a NO CARRIER message and Winsock waits to try again as per the parameters in
the login.cmd file.

I called my ISP and they said I have one of three problems:
1]  I'm calling the wrong number (I'm not...the number is the same as always,
and I never edited it),
2]  I lack the proper driver (I don't...no special driver is required),
3]  The modem is faulty (they suggest I replace the old, working modem to
verify I can still connect as before).

I'm not a genius, but I'm not dumb either.  I tried using telix (DOS) to
access grex and, with a slight change in my telix modem set-up to permit the
increased speed, and require hardware handshaking, I am now using the modem
to connect to grex (funny thing, though, occurs at login...more on that
later).

I also used the bundled windows communication software and connected to grex
last night.  Again, no problem (but I like the telix better).

Here are the specs:
Jaton Corp "communicator" V/F/D modem (16-bit ISA) - [http://www.jaton.com]
Cheyenne BitWare software V3.30 F/D/V  [ http://www.cheyenne.com ]
Trumpet Winsock v2.0 (I have v3.03 ready to install, but I'm waiting until
I can get connected to my ISP again).
Netscape Communicator 4.0, Eudora Light v3.0.

I've been studying the WinSock login.cmd file and experimenting with changes
in the modem setup string to no avail.  I've also experimented with a few
incarnations of the WinSock Setup Network Configuration parameters...primarily
increasing the baud rate set and increasing the demand load timeout to give
more time for the handshake recognition (?).  I also played with the online
status detection (previously set to DCD (RLSD) CHECK, I've disabled it to
NONE).

None of these things seem to make any difference at all, and I can hear I'm
getting through to the ISP but not finalizing the connection for some reason.
Since the change in the modem is the only change, I'm sure the problem is at
my end...but what do I do to correct it?

See response #1 for the strange grex login situation...

42 responses total.

When I first tried to connect to grex using telix (DOS) my dialer timed out
before the final connection could be completed.  so, I increased the time from
about 40 seconds to 120 seconds.  Now, I hear the connection, but I never get
the alarm sound telling me I'm connected.  When the handshake signal ends,
I press <esc> to get out of the dialing function and a grex login: appears.
Then I login as usual and there's no problem (I did also have to disable the
CR/LF to avoid double spaced lines, but that was no problem.

Anyway, that's the only unusual thing I found.

OOps...system going down soon for passwd file maintenance.  I'll check back
later.

Yes, it does that if you try to connect at over 9600 baud...

Hmmmm...never noticed that at 14.4 though.

Any thoughts on configuring/set-up with WinSock so i can get back to mu ISP
(provide.net)?

I never did get trumpet to work right on my computer...you may want to use
the IE dialer....or at least try it once and see if it'sjust trumpet that's
causing the problem

IE dialer?  Don't know what that is...but if it's the windows terminal program
I can't use it because it won't permit configuration to Com2 and IRQ7 (which
is what I need to use to avoid IRQ conflicts).

I have had absolutely no problem using trumpet to work over the past 2+ years
(with my old 14.4 modem).  That's why I want to get it working with the new
33.6 modem...reduce the variables.  Once it works, I'll move up to the newer
trumpet or some other way to connect to the ISP.

Does sound to me like a modem configuration problem.

IE = internet explorer   the dialer isn't that bad

Oh...I don't use IE, I use Win3.1 and Netscape Communicator 4.04.

Here's an update...  I had to make a minor change in the trumpet winsock for
the increased baud rate, and then, with the help of provide.nets network
"guru", we tried several (_many_) modem congifuration strings...each to no
avail.

finally, he (provide.net) suggested I call the modem manufacturer and ask for
an initialization string to use for most efficient communication with USR
modem bank.  But, when i talked to the tech support _they had no idea what
I was talking about_!  heh.  The 1st guy I talked to suggested that my COM2
and IRQ7 settings were the problem (been using those for _years_ to avoid IRQ
conflicts with other devices), and he couldn't seem to graps the fact that
all works well except connecting to this one bank of USR modems.  He couldn't
speak very good english either, btw.

Then I got a call back from another fellow who spoke poor english with a heavy
asian accent.  He too, didn't seem to understand the problem, but at least
offered to give me the factory default init string (which he did), and then
directed me to chapter 5 of the manual (AT Commands).  when i told him the
manual, which is on the CD, is in Word format, and I don't have word, he told
me to go to the MS site and download a reader.  I explained that i couldn't
do so without being able to make the connection with the ISP (is anyone
getting a picture here?  ;).  Finally, he admitted they should have included
the reader on the CD (I've since gotten it read, and copied to a format I can
read...but it doesn't help much.  It only contains information the provide.net
tech and i had been trying already).

So, I'm at an impass.  Jaton doesn't seem to understand my problem, and offers
very little support for Win3.1.  They think my problems will go away if I
upgrade to Win95.  Provide.net support admits this is _possible_, but if the
Jaton modem would work under Win95 we should also be able to get it to work
under Win3.1.  He further said, anecdotally, that there are some modems out
there which simply will not connect to USR modems, even though they should.

Oh yeah, for those of you in the know of such things...the Jaton Communicator
33,600 modem uses the Cirrus Logic CL-MD3452 (4450,3452,172x2) chipset (that's
for my modem which has speakerphone).  It claims 16C550A/16C450 Register
Compatible Buffered UART, and 16 bit ISA Parallel Bus with manual jumpers or
PnP (I used the jumpers to set com2/irq7 which is what all my related software
is configured for).

So...I guess I either need to scrap this modem, relegate it only to a few DOS
or Win/Fax uses, or be dragged (kicking and screaming) into a Win95 upgrade
(which is not a certain solution IAE).

This is the last IU'll say about this......<cause I don't want to beat
someone else's horse :) >

You don't have to use IE, you can do a custom setup and just install the
dialer, this is what I am doing in order to use Netscape 3.01

again..I'll leave this alone now...I just suggest try it...

<sorry if I'm being annoying>

Hmmmm... didn't know that.  I think I have a copy of the latest version of
IE on a CD I just got from provide.net.  I'll have to take a look-see and try
and figure out how to install only the dialer.  will the IE dialer work with
Win3.1?  Or is Win95 still required?

The one I'm using is on win 3.1....but I'm not too sure of the
version...

There are 3.1 and 95 versions of IE.  The Dialer is presumably only for 3.1,
since Windows95 has the PPP dialer built in.

First off, let me commend you on finding a modem that offers the option of
being a non-PnP device. My Motorola ModemSURFR 28.8 has that and I was happy
to use it. In PnP mode, it tried to take away IRQs from my sound card.
I would suggest trying a lower speed (like 14.4) when you connext to you ISP.
Grex's modems all connect at 14.4 (or lower?), which could be why you're not
having any trouble here. I have similar trouble sometimes, my ISP connection
will also drop for no apparent reason, or the modem will take several "boings"
to connect. I lower the connection speed and well, at least I connect. The
phone wiring in my house sucks, but it's not up to me to call Ameritech and
have them do anything about it.

re 12: I found that out this weekend...ohh well

you may have hit on the problem in response #1.  The more feature-rich a modem
is, the more complicated the initial handshake sequence is.  Try modifying
your Trumpet config to allow more time before assuming a 'no carrier'
condition.
  I concur with your reluctance to use any part of IE.  You've heard the
story, I'm sure, about letting the camel stick his nose in the tent...

Sometimes 'obsolete' technology is the appropriate choice.  Those ubiquitous
little veri-phone credit card terminals use old-fashioned bell 103 modems at
300 baud!  With only one mode supported, the handshake time is about nil, and
the 44-byte data exchange is complete before a modern modem even asserts CD!
ISDN has more than just an 8kb advantage over the 56k modems.  Since the mode
negotiation is part of the initial call request, the time between 'atdt...'
and CD is about 5 sec, and I have a PPP link passing traffic within 12sec.
Compare that to 45-60 seconds for my V.34 28.8 modem.  The 56k's are probably
slower.

(ISDN is a lot more than 8K faster than a "56K" modem in terms of throughput
as well.  "56K" modems don't actually do 56K.

agreed, but that's another long discussion.  I don't have one myself.  I've
heard that on US lines they can't do better than 53k, but I don't know how
often they actually get going that fast.  Anybody got some real data from
practical situations in this neighborhood?

A good connection with the K56/Flex modems is around 40K.  The USR X2 modems
are rumored to do somewhat better, but they aren't common enough to be very
useful.  I'm still waiting for code from Ascend to upgrade our terminal
servers at work to the new v.90 56K standard.

Part of "truth in advertising" is that modem ads for 56K medels now note that
"regulations" prohibit speeds faster than 53K.

I hadn't heard about the standard being adopted.  USR has promised that if
they eventually adopted a standard different from their X2 technology,
they would provide a free flash upgrade to support it.  Anybody know how
closely x.90 compares to either k56 or X2?  Heard any announcements from
USR?  I know several people who  bought the USR sportster based on that
promise...
  Yeah, they got 56k working in the lab, then noticed that the PSC tariffs
prohibited them driving the lines that hard.  I wonder if x.90 solved
that, or if they're still negotiating with the PSC and telcos over it..

It's probably time for a refresher in how phone lines work.

A POTS line, as it comes into your house, is an analog line.  As such, it has
no real definite capacity, and everything is influenced by how much loss there
is due to bad line quality.  However, once it gets into the phone switch,
stuff coming over the phone line generally gets converted to a digital signal,
and goes into a DS0 channel.  DS0s, as provisioned for voice calls, have a
capacity of 56K.

With the 56K modems, the high speed connection only goes from the ISP towards
the customer, and not the other way around.  The ISP can't use regular analog
phone lines, but instead has to use trunk side T1s, meaning that the signal
is digital all the way from the ISPs modems to the phone switch that the
customer's phone line goes into.  As such, getting the 56K signal from the
ISP to the customer's local phone switch is easy, becuase there is a 56K
digital channel going all the way there.  Modems won't ever get more than 56K
with the current setup, since that's the capacity of the DS0, but 56K is not
a problem.  Then the signal has to go from the phone switch to the customer,
over an analog phone line.  Analog phone lines don't have nearly the quality
of digital lines, so a lot is lost.  I think the original idea was that if
they sent enough power at the analog line, they would get a strong enough
signal to send all that data through.  In practice, there's enough loss that
even 53K connects just don't happen through the analog segment.  What can be
created in a test lab with perfect phone lines is very different from what's
in the real world.

We did run some tests at work plugging a K56 Flex modem into the POTS jack
on some ISDN equipment.  Since ISDN is digital, we had a digital 56K path all
the way from the modem in our test computer to the modem in our terminal
server.  At that point we got a reliable 53K connection without a problem.
Then again, that seems to be missing the point, since if you have an ISDN line
and ISDN equipment, you might as well do ISDN instead.

Well, my ISP uses all USR 56k dialups, so I guess I'd get at least 52k-53k
speed if I went that way.  Since I couldn't get the 33.6 to logon there, I
broke down and bought a USR 56k with all the same bells and buzzers (ie;
capable of voice and data over the same data link, and with voice-mail, etc,
software).  i installed it, and now I'm off and running with no problems!

I still have the 33.6, and would like to use it in another computer, but I
haven't tried to reconfigure it since I installed the USR.  All the above
suggestions are appreciated (and will be attempted, if not already
tried)...and anything else you can think of as a variable to try please let
me know.

I guess I'll use this dormant item instead of entering a new one:
I have a new PC with a 56K modem using the Lucent chipset.  When I
plug in the phone line, regardless of whether or not the PC is turned
on, something in the modem is causing an off-hook condition.  If you
pick up a telephone receiver, you won't hear a dial tone, which you
should if the modem & software isn't dialing.  Luckily enough for now,
the off-hook condition is a true one, as I can use software to dial
out.  But I can't leave the phone line plugged in after I'm done
on-line, as this will keep the phone line off-hook.  Any thoughts on
what is causing this, what could be tried/done?  It's not the phone
line!

Does it matter if the modem is powered? How long after power up of the
modem does it go off-hook? 

This response has been erased.

It shorts when you plug in the modcon. There are four little springy
(gold plated) wires. It sounds as one of the center two is bent or
not held properly, and crosses over to touch the other when you 
plug in a modcon. Have a close look. You might be able to bend it
straight.

The relay in your modem, that takes the modem off-hook, is stuck
closed.  Can you dial out pulse?

The test for that was what I had in mind in #24: if it happens with the
modem unpowered, the relay is stuck.  In fact, just measure the resistance
between the two center finger "pins" in the "phone" jack of the unpowered
modem. If it only happens when the modem is powered, then there is a
circuit problem.

You may also want to make sure you're plugging in the 'line' or 'wall' side
of the modem, not the 'phone' side.  On some it doesn't make a difference,
on others it does.

No, I had plugged the phone cord in properly, as evidenced by the fact that
I was able to get on-line with my software.  I ended up plugging in the
(short) cord that came with the modem, and joining it to the line cord with
one of those "lesbian" connector thingies.  Magically, everything is now
working.  I suspect that rcurl was right about the connector on the line cord
"doing something to" the modem, although it worked perfectly fine with the
old PC's modem card.  Ah, the mystery of hardware...  :-)

How come my 33.6 modem surfr (motorola) connects at 115,200 bps?
I am using dialup for Internet.

There's the connection between your modem and the internet, and then the
connection between your modem and your computer.  Usually it's set faster than
the possible internet connection speed.

makes sense to me...mine is set to 57,600 but I only connect at 32,100 any
clues for that?  Is it just my crappy ISP?  ANd the lines in this house are
stonage...they existed long before comptuers were popular...
-Elm.

Yup, it depends on your phone lines and ISP.  The modem will try to get a fast
connection, but may end up just getting 32k or even less.

The best I've ever seen from a 56K modem is 49K.  The maximum you can get
over real phone lines is 54K.  56K is a theoretical max.

56K is also an illegal max, here in the States at least.  53K is the most
allowed in actual use, so that's all the modems are set to use.

Wow.  I never knew that.  Thanks, guys.  I hope someday I'm as technical and
hardcore as you so I can help neophytes like you are now.  The most I've ever
seen on a 56K is 50,600 bps.  I guess that's pretty decent.  PLus my ISP is
about a 30-45 minutes away by car driving about 50.  Meh I'm too lazy to
figure it out and I don't know if I could.   I'm hella tired.  I just wish
I had a little bit better bandwidth. Do you think I'd notice? It'd only be
another 20,000 bps.  I guess it doesn't matter.   Have you heard of Powerline
Networking and Phoneline Networking?  I have a PC up stairs and another
downstairs and I'd like to network them to play starcraft, warcraft and diablo
with my friend.  But wireless and ethernet are too expensive and I read about
these.  Can they handle games?  And do you think it'd work on my old lines?
And I wouldn't want to overload this 50+ year old electrical wiring.
Thanks, Elm.

It won't overload your electrical wiring.  I wouldn't expect blazing speed,
though.  If the two rooms you plan on networking happen to be on different
legs in your fusebox it may not work very well, since the signal would have
to go out to the pole transformer and back.

Do look into 802.11b ("WiFi") wireless networking - it's gotten a lot cheaper,
and it will be faster than the powerline products.  It's also much more
common.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss