I bought a PowerMac 7200/120 at the UM Kickoff a few weeks ago. Out of the
box, it did not work (no video). The Kickoff policy is "no returns" - one
must go through 1-800-SOS-APPL. They set me up with a pleasant
repairperson that would come to my house. He used to be a copier
repairperson, but he hurt his back so they transferred him to computers. 
He switched the motherboard, which made the video work, but now a strange
scraping sound came out of the CPU speaker on shutdown. It didn't happen
if the HD was unplugged (and one booted from the CD-ROM system disk), but
changing the HD did not make the sound go away. The pleasant repairperson
came back a week later with another new motherboard and a new SCSI cable,
but neither helped. He said, "Well, the only thing I haven't replaced
that's replaceable is the power supply", so he is coming back with that
next week. He did check later with Apple and it turns out that the problem
is *known* to them, and it is the power supply, and *they have no fix for
it* yet, although not all of that model power supply cause the noise. One
is supposed to call in the problem and when they find a fix, they will fix
it. I guess we'll see if we're lucky with just exchanging the power
supply. So, there is my new hybrid, the Apple Lemon, and sweet-and-sour
machine. 

38 responses total.

It sounds like instability in the power supply going down on shutoff.
As long as there are no transients that go above the voltage ratings
of the CPU, you should be OK.
 
We have a friend who wanted a new Power PC for their family and wound
up with one from Power Computing (clone) after going through three
Apple machines.

I've gotten used to the scraping sound on shutdown. However life got
interesting (?!) at the beginning of November, while I was trying to
install what is called the Port Juggler (to get more serial ports). The PJ
is another story, but in the course of fiddling, it stopped working, and
then my ability to print to an AppleTalk Deskwriter failed (AppleTalk
error, it said) and *then*...the Trash icon stopped bulging when I dropped
files into it. At that point I called SOS-APPL, and the subsequent history
went: 

11/12: Joe. Suggested I try the printer from the modem report (which
didn't help to print), and to resert P-RAM and NV-RAM, which didn't help
Trash bulge.

11/12: Sam. On his suggestion, I reinstalled the System (and reset RAMs
and rebuilt Desktop). Still no Trash bulge, though it bulged OK when used
from the System disk (CD-ROM). On my own, I downloaded a Deskwriter GX
driver, which restored printer function. Now, it was just the non-bulge at
issue.

11/13: Charles. Suggested doing a Clean Install after running Disk
FirstAid. Clean Install renames the System Folder and builds a new one. 
Afterward, if this solves the problem, you have to copy extensions and
control panels back into the System Folder, and check to see if any
problems arise as you go. However, after the Clean Install, the Trash
still did not bulge. 

Charles also suggested running Norton Utilities on the HD. I didn't have
it, so went out to buy it, and decided that getting a "free" Norton
Utilities CD-ROM was a big enough inducement to buy MIcrosoft Office.
Tried to create Startup Disks from the NU CD-ROM, following instructions,
but nothing worked. Took it upon lyself to run NU from the CD-ROM, which
seemed to do its thing. Called the salesperson and asked about the problem
with the NU CD-ROM, and he said to call Microsoft since they bundled it,
but Microsoft never heard of it. I called NU, who said, "Oh, you can't
make startup disks - just copy Disk Doctor to a floppy, but start up from
System CD-ROM to use it." Worked OK, but did not solve Trash non-bulge.
Did another Clean Install after using Disk Doctor, but that didn't work
either. 

11/15: Dave. Suggested doing a *Manual* Clean Install, in which one
renames the System Folder manually, removes and trashes the System and
Finder files (so they aren't around at all to contaminate new System and
Finder files), and then do an ordinary System Easy Install. Nope - Trash
would still not bulge. 

11/18: Rick. Talked me through another Clean Install. After it didn't do
any good, he said it was "weird", and these computers are so complicated
they are "organic". He said to Initialize HD after backing everything up.
Learned how to use a new ZIP drive. Initialized, including low-level
re-formatting, and zeroing everything. Ran NU Diosk Doctor again, and did
Easy Install of System again. TRASH BULGED. 

It took most of a day to get everything I had had in the original System
Folder moved back in, or reinstalled.

Subsequently, a UM computer guru said - Oh yes, the Quantum Fireball
drives in those machines were corrupted when they were originally
formatted and the system installed...... 

[Strong urge to start smashing CD-ROMS.....]

End of saga - for now.

Wow!!!!  What an ordeal!  My Mac developed a much more basic problem two
days ago: it stopped working.  I think my motherboard is completely dead.
Totally out of the blue.  I've been shocked looking at prices for replacement
equipment, and am contemplating abandoning the Mac platform entirely.  I've
got a Win95 PC, which I'm growing increasingly fond of - it has some features
that the Mac isn't expected to have for several years yet (like pre-
emptive multitasking), which I find very useful.  My main hesitation is that
all my graphics software is on the Mac (3D and 2D), and I've got some Mac-
specific peripherals (printer, scanner, quickcam) that I'd want to replace
if I went to Win95 exclusively.  I'm thinking it's time to make the switch,
though.  Macs seem more and more like a dead end path, so I'm reluctant to
pour another $1000 or so into a Mac, when for around the same amount, I could
switch over to Win95 exclusively.  (I'd have to spend some time porting old
docs over to Windows, too, but I can use a friend's Mac to do that).

Wow indeed.  Seems to me there are fewer and fewer reasons to buy a Mac.
They have becoming more and more like DOS boxes :(  Guess that's why I
still like my old Mac Plus running system 6.07 :)
 
Rob, let me know if you do decide to get rid of your Mac.  I like to
tinker with dead Macs every now and than.
 

What Mac do you have, Rob?

  It's a Quadra 660AV.  I'm not that fond of the AV portion (the bundled
video software produces terrible results), but I think a Quadra (or other
68040) is my minimum speed requirement for a replacement.  Mac LCs seem
to go for $100, but that's just too slow, if it would run my software at
all.  I haven't yet called a repair shop, but I'm guessing they'll charge
$50-$100 to tell me that it's broken and they can't fix it.  (The only
easily-replacable parts are the CPU and battery).  I think the power
supply is OK, because its fan works, and the Mac produces the nice Quadra
start-up chord when I power it on, but the disk doesn't make booting
sounds, and nothing shows up on the screen.

Have you tried pulling all but the required cards on the bus and re-booting?

NOW my Apple Lemon is grinding to a molasses slow crawl when I connect
with FreePPP and disconnect - that's all it takes. Must be an INIT conflict,
but I haven't found it. Is there a utility that tracks down things like this?

Re 7, no cards to pull, except SIMMs, and I tried pulling, one, the other,
and both, with no difference.

Re 8, I usually disable inits with the "Extensions Manager" control panel.
You can save your current configuration, then click the checkboxes to try
disabling likely culprits, reboot, and try again.  MacTCP is the only one
I can think of that should be absolutely required, so if you turn off all
but that, and the problem still occurs, you can nearly rule out an init
conflict.  I've heard of a program called "Conflict Catcher" that looks
for things automatically, but can't remember if it's Mac or Win (or both).

It's Mac too, but it only does its thing on bootup (I read...). This problem
occurs as the result of starting and stopping an application. I ran NU Disk
Dcotor - boy, those bundle bits sure get mixed up. Now, back to
INIT-detective....

The problem went away after running Disk Doctor. The only thing fixed were
those bundle bits - could they have been responsible for that cold molasses?
The machine is making up for its prior faults by running extra fast tonight.

Who knows; I'd just be grateful!!  ;-)

I'm about to reinstall Port Juggler.... B^#

Port Juggler reinstalled! It works! This gives me five (5) serial ports on
my Mac, though there are a few "catches". One is that the manual is
terrible; another is that the maker's e-mail address was no good. However
their FAX worked, and I got a couple of tips that solved problems. I think
I will enter a new item for the Port Juggler, though.

Now, my PowerMac is running pretty well, with an occasional slowdown that
is still unexplained (see an item in micros about that). I shall not hold
my breath, but....think it.

  That's good news.  I'm also seeing happier Mac times.  I just bought a
Quadra 650 to replace my deceased 660AV.  Faster processor and better
video resolution.  Unfortunately about three times the size.  (It's more
expandable, but in 11 years of Mac ownership, I have yet to buy an add-on
card for any of them :-).  I got a decent price on it, too...$480 with 24
megs of RAM, 350 meg hard drive, keyboard, mouse, and network adapter.

While my PowerMac 7200 was sleeping, I heard quiet murmuring from its HD.
It seemed to be reading, but only slowly. When I woke it up, the murmuring
ceased (after the usual wakeup loading). Is it REM that I am hearing?

  I think you're seeing the early warning signs of demonic posession
that are routinely ignored in horror movies like Child's Play.  If you
remove power to an electronic device, yet it continues to function as
if it were consuming power, it's time for an exorcism.  On the other
hand, general horror movie protocol dictates that you turn to your
companions and suggest "ok, let's split up...."

It was only asleep, not dead. All sentient systems continue to process
information while asleep. 

  If it's plugged in and turned on, but your computer isn't, then what
you're hearing is probably thermal recalibration every couple minutes.
I think that adjusts the head position to account for thermal changes.
One thing that sets "AV drives" apart from others is that it doesn't
pause to do this when it's got more important things to do, like read
or write data.  That way it doesn't get behind writing video frames
it's digitizing during recalibration.

The computer is plugged in too - but it is in SLEEP mode. However what
you describe would account for the REM sleep (rapid expansion movement,
in case I hadn't mentioned it... 8^>).

The REM algorithm being stored in ROM?

Presumably in the drive ROM.

Gee and I was just thinking of getting an ibook with macOS X.  Maybe I'll just
get a new windows box and put a nice distro of Linux on it.   Like Debian or
SuSe... :P

Whoah there, don't be basing your purchase on a 6 year old thread!

I've got an iBook, and I love it.  I run OS X *and* Linux on it.

The reawakening of this item led me to scan it - I'm sure glad that
my current G4 didn't have the problems that 7200 did. But Port Juggler
is now in retirement since its serial cable does not fit in the
serial ports on the serial card I put inthe G4 (to run my heritage
serial hardware). 

I was being half-facetious.  I've used OS 8.7 and 9.2 and I liked it.  I want
to try OSx.  I have an old Macintosh Performa runningsystem 7.1 (I think...)
And It's groovy.  I'm for sure going to get an Ibook.   But I don't know
enough about mac-architecture to install and properly configure any linux
system.  I have a much easier time with windows-based boxes (even if I don't
like windows so much).

Unless you have weird mac hardware, installing linux is likely to be
about as painless (if not more so) than i386 hardware.  At least, I
presume you don't mean alpha hardware (which was also supported by
windows for a while.) macpcc has one big advantage over i386 -- it has a
decent I/O architecture.  With i386, there are tons of gotchas about
interrupt assignments, legacy hardware issues, and multi-vendor
weirdnesses.  With nubus, you're talking about one vendor, and a much
more advanced I/O subsystem with many fewer things to go wrong.  PCIbus
isn't quite so pretty, but it's still not nearly as bad as legacy
ISA/bios/motherboard issues can get.  Assuming you have a supported
hardware configuration, installing linux is likely to be fairly
pain-free.  I've installed openbsd & mklinux on old mac hardware, and in
each case, the installation proper was practically a no brainer.

Yeah well...I don't know shit about macs as you just made me realize.  All
I know is that it's a performa 400 from 1992 or 3, I think.  Anyhow, I'm not
going to be putting linux on anyhting for awhile.  I always mess it up beyond
repair.  I had redhat 6.0 but I messed up X so bad that I couldn't fix it.
So tonight I just wiped my ext2 partition and gave it to Windows (like it
wanted me too) :P

You don't need to know shit.  For that you go to a farm yard.  To
install linux, you mainly have to pay attention to the installation
directions.

Er, regarding X -- making that work on i386 *is* a pain.  There's a ton
of different display cards plus more are coming out all the time, so
getting an X that talks to your display card can sometimes be "iffy".
Then there is the whole "what does your monitor really support" issue
which is never easy to decide.  The result is more confusion than is
desirable.

For the mac, X is likely to "just work", assuming you have a supported
platform.  I think the Performa was 68040 based -- that may limit your
choices some (and the amount of main memory you have may also be an
issue.)

Hmmm.  Why do I keep hearing i386? I'm running a 686.  Anyhow.  I"m not too
interested in linux righ tnow.  I'm learning VB and then I'm going to try C++
And then there is always video games :P  So you know.  I might try linux
seriously in a year or two when I'mve completely outgrown windows98se.  ANot
that I love it, I just suck at linux.  I couldn't even get redhat to mount
my CD-rom in KDE.  So yeah.  But thanks for the info.  Anything you would like
to add or any info you would like to pass on would be much appreciated. --ein

"i386" is the basic feature set for Intel processors.  486, Pentium, etc. have
added a small number of extra features and operations, but the bulk of the
programming hasn't really changed since the 386.

Re #29: X installation has improved recently.  The last few RedHat installs
I've done auto-detected my display card, then automatically figured out my
monitor's capabilities based on its plug-and-play responses.  I checked off
which color depth and resolution I wanted, and it was done.  Easier than
setting up a display card in Windows NT.

That's good to know -- although that's also partly possible because
modern monitors are smarter (ie, support plug-and-play responses).
Older displays are still going to be a problem.  I always wondered how
NT handled display cards...(in a very theoretical "I'm not sure I'll
like the answer" sort of way.)

Whoah cool.  I might have to try redhat 7.3.  Star Trek Wails. Yeah oh well
if it was off topic. :P

Re #33: True, but there are fewer and fewer old displays around.  Anything
from the mid-90s on will generally support plug-and-play.  Most people trash
their monitor when they get a new PC, especially since monitors that early
will mostly be 14" ones with low refresh rates and new monitors are cheap.

Windows NT 4.0 doesn't support most modern cards.  It comes up in 16-color
VGA mode.  You find the driver for your card, install it, and reboot. 
You then find yourself in 256-color VGA mode at 60 Hz.  Now you go in and
set your resolution, color depth, and refresh rate by hand.  NT has a 'test'
button that tries the new settings for 15 seconds, so you can see if they
work.  (I've done a lot of NT installs lately. Does it show? ;) )

I've heard that the next release of Windows (whatever comes after
XP...Windows .NET, I think) won't let you change refresh rates at all --
whatever Microsoft thinks you should get, you get.  Given that Win98 seemed
to consider 60 Hz 'optimal' I'm not optomistic about this.

And that would be great if people bought new systems to run linux.  I'm
sure there are people who do just that, but people who are just getting
started with linux (or *bsd) are probably using cast-off hardware
instead.  Old monitors that somebody else thought were trash are
therefore still pretty likely.

Some people are bothered by 60 Hz more than others.  Be glad you don't
live in Europe; broadcast TV there is 50 Hz.

It doesn't bother me much on TV, but it does on a computer monitor.  I'm not
sure why, exactly, but I think it's the amount of concentration and how
close I'm sitting.  The bigger the monitor, the worse it looks at a low
refresh rate.  I can easily detect flicker on white areas of the screen at
anything below 70 Hz, and it'll quickly give me a headache.  Most ergonimic
guidelines suggest 72 Hz as a bare minimum.

Yeah I know that feeling.  I hate that headache I get.  When I switched from
800X600 to 1271 X (something) I notice dit at first but now its' gone and I
dcan't go back, it looks too big. :P

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