Ugh.

        My second joystick has developed the same problem as the first. The
top end-of-stick firing button only works some of the time. In this one, 
the button makes a connection by pressing a couple of thin sheets of metal
(slightly thicker than foil) together, and one of the metal bits has worn 
out and broken in half.
        I can't figure out the other one. 
        If i write to Kraft (the maker), will they give me a new little 
metal sheet/strip/bit?
        Can anyone suggest an alterative sitch, stick, or a place that fixes
these? 
        I can't afford a new stick and controller, and while I don't use the
stick very often, I like to play an action game occasionally.
        I could re-wire it so that one of the base buttons (button number
two) worked as the top button, but that would be awkward.
        Any ideas?

28 responses total.

Probably the "best" solution is to get a surplus military joystick.
The military is prone to overengineering these sorts of things,
and what they paid thousands of dollars for, you can pick up lots
cheaper -- and it'll last you much longer than you'll care to look
at it.  The only tricky part is the interface - you'll want to
learn just a bit about the PC's weird game port first.

Or you might be able to buy a dictaphone foot pedal (or sewing machine?),
and wire the switch from that in place of the broken hand one.  Should
be interesting to see if the increased foot reaction time is a handicap.

Foot pedal? Hmmn...
I don't know where I could get a military surplus joystick; I doubt I could
afford it, and I have learned a bit about PC game ports in general and mine 
in particular - I do NOT want to try wiring something on that end. It is 
a holy mess. 
        My machine came with a "game port" on the port board - "serial, 2
serial. parallel, game port". THAT game port is recognized by 1 program, 
and the lines are all out of whack. I looked at the docs, and it doesn't
look much like that port could work with anything. The Kraft "joystick
controller card" work with Kraft joysticks, no other brand I've found, and
didn't come with schematics. 
        Speed of the machine is also a problem - certain combinations won't 
work at certain speeds. 
        I guess I could analyse this and write it up as my masters thesis,
but I'd rather just try to fix the button.

You could call up the company and ask about spare parts.  Chances are,
however, that it's essentially non-repairable - and that the only
solution is to buy a new one.

If nothing else, I can just make another button and glue it to the stick.

Buy an over-built fottswitch, like one of the many they make for guitarists
and other musicians, and patch it into the existing wiring, or more easily
build an new adapter that the old joystick would plug through.

A what?

I know of a company (but don't have the info at hand at this minute)
that makes a foot pedal that connects to the parallel port.  It comes
with software that generates any keystroke you choose in response to
actuating it.  Don't know if this will do the job for you, but I
thought I'd mention it.

I think I might as well just shell out the $20 for a new cheap joystick and c
and consider it an annual expense. :(

If you want a long-lasting all-weather design, you could purchase a door
bell switch & use it.  Many designs are even lit, making them easier to
spot in rooms only dimly illuminated by the fitful glare of the CRT.

If you want to try to replace the switch contacts I have some trashed keyboards
that have the same plated membrane design - you could scavenge the contacts off
of a keyboard membrane - mail me (fes) if you're interested.

Or go somplace like surplus electronics.

The switch design was very strange. I just went ahead and got a new one for
$17. I'll try to fix one of teh old ones, but no hurry, now.
What is "plated membrane"?

I think they mean the PC boards that are plastic coated with little bubbles o
over the contact points.  Theres some conductive material under the bubble
thats jumps two concentric contacts on the PC board.  Original Atari 2600
joysticks were like this.  When you moved the stick one way or the other,
a plastic tab pressed down on one or two of the bubbles.  These switches
never get dirty inside, and last fairly long.  I don't think I've come
across a firing button like this, though.

The atari 400/800 used the same joystick design - and the firing button
was just a 5th contact.  Unfortunately, the plastic and the contacts
do wear out eventually.

The 'plated membrane' is essentially a piece of thin flexible platic that has
conductive metal traces on it (I think that they are either put on with some
sort of plating process). These sheets, with matching contact points, are
separated by a third sheet that has holes where the outside sheets are supposed
to make contact. When you push down on a key, a pad pushes down over the
contact area on the top sheet, deflecting it enough (pushing it down through
the hole) that the two plated areas make contact and the electrical connection
is made.

Hm, actually, I think the Atari design may be a bit different.  I seem
to recall metal dimples (or at least one for the firing button), perhaps
to provide key click.  And I seem to recall some sort of hole
communicating to the cavity, perhaps to equalize pressure.  (Otherwise,
altitude & weather could cause real trouble.)

The atari joystick designs that I have always seen were the 'metal dome' type.
As marcus describes, there is usually a metal dimple that insures contact
situated at the vertex of the partial spheroid.  This object in turn lays 
above a set of contacts and under a sheet of adhesive coated plastic.

Why is it that joysticks seem to be so poorly constructed?  I am only just
happy with the one I have.  My brother has one like it that is such a piece
of junk that it is worse than having no joystick at all.  I still don't
understand why he continues to use it given the amount he spends on other
stuff that isn't 'needed'.  But my previous joystick was crap, and most of
the others I have know of were crap.  What's up with that?

Ther are quality joysticks out there, you just have to search for them.
About 10 years ago, a company named "Wico" made digital joysticks for
things like Atari's and Amiga's that were just amazing. Metal parts
where others used plastic. Their trackball was the best I've ever seen.
I was used to big expensive trackballs on commercial arcade video games
that would roll long after you stopped pushing them, but the consumer
grade things that showed up in computer stores were junk. They were stiff
and rough and you had to *push* the ball fairly hard to make it turn.
The Wico trackball just *glided* wonderfully. I took it apart and found
that they had used a good heavy billiard ball as the ball and the ball
was supported by heavy metal rollers and precision sealed ball bear
assemblys all attached to 2 quality optical encoders.          ^^^^bearings

Today, the best made, and solid feeling, analog joystick I've seen are
the CH flightstick products. They may not have all the fancy features
of some of the others, but they are much more *solid* feeling than
anything else I've tried.

I have seen Thrustmasters like mine only made from extruded Aluminum.  That
might be nice.  Looked cool, too.  I have thought about building my own a few
times.  Maybe with the guts from my thrustmaster in it...  Dunno.  I have lots
of other things to keep me busy besides making joysticks.

I still have a homemade one from my Apple ][ days, but it was designed
for basic functionality on a $5 budget, not for high quality :-).  I
bought an MS joystick recently, the one with a handle that swivels for
VR-ish apps, but I haven't used it enough to have much of an opinion.
Well...I guess the main opinion I have is that it takes up a honkin'
lot of desk space, and it could use redundent buttons for wherever your
fingers want to be. On its plus side, I expect software support for it
will be quite good as more VR apps come out.

Sounds like a cool stick.  My main complaint with sticks is the floppy
and erratic action in the centered position.  I also miss the adjustment
pots that I had on my tandy joysticks, and the switches that allowed
you to 'turn off' the spring independantly in the two movement directions.

Re #19:  I've got a CH Flightstick, which I bought after one of the 
plastic gimbals snapped on the Gravis Analog joystick I was using.  This 
one's plastic, too, but the construction is really beefy.  It has trim 
pots, too, to adjust the center location.
I've got one of those Tandy joysticks -- I took it apart and rewired it 
as an IBM joystick, and I now use it as a 2nd joystick with Flight 
Simulator.  The ability to 'turn off' the X and Y spring centering 
independently is nice.

Maybe I can get one of those old tandy's back.... <hmmm>..  >:}

The basic problem with joysticks is that the main consumers don't have enough
money to buy one built properly.

How much should it cost to build one properly?

Say $50.  That doesn't seem like much now, but I recall being in high school
(dating-myself-warning!  1981-4) and $10 was a pretty big chunk of money. 
$20 for a joystick would have been the upper limit (I blew my money on old
audio and music stuff, though)

I suppose $50 for a good analog joystick with good buttons is not too much,
however, I don't think I got the quality out of my >$50 that I expected.

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