PREAMBLE
This may actually be better placed in Synth, or perhaps better here, or
perhaps linked.  (though there is so much overlap I am not sure if
people really want to see it twice...do what thou wilt, I guess)
This is something that I feel a need for, but at the same time am at a moral
delema.  I don't like segragation of any sort.  On the other hand, this
is something that I feel the need to explore.  Help!<font repeats her self,
repeats herself!>

Well, now that's out of the way, I just wanted to gripe a little bit.  (font
cringes...that goody two shoes is too deeply ingrained! help!)
I am having trouble with some metaphors for creation of the universe,
for it always seems to be based on a hetero thing, and most mysteries seem
all to lead back to that direction (like all roads leading to rome).
Now I know that sex is sacred, and don't mean to offend the large number
of Bi's here (I would have berated myself for this rant less than a year
ago, and still take a large amount of restraint to keep from doing so)
but I sort of feel like I don't as  a lesbian have a place in the universe
sometimes. I don't know what it means, or if it just means I need a gf, or
what, but is there a place or books that can talk about this place?
I have a fairly decient biological theory as to Why Not All Humans are
Destined to Procreate, but it's the cult of science speaking again,
and doesn't give me much room to feel.  I dont' always like looking in
books for this sort of thing, so I dunno what I really need.
I used to have a very special place in my heart for Seagulls, but
Bevis and Butthead ruined it. <grumble>  I need a tougher skin, perhaps?
Also, for some reason the Diana immage just doesn't work for me.  
Athena is closer, but I just don't do greek.  There is a goddess
(phoenecian?, Etruscan?  Some wierd (ie not Brittish Isles) European?)
Goddess called Zim, who is alaways seen with a female consort who is 
*not* her daughter.  But ofcourse there is no information about her,
save that her temples are always on the outskirts of town.
So if there is anyone out there who knows about this stuff,
or has anything whatever to say about it, please.  I'll consider
anything.  (I said consider...carefully and lengthly...I am picky dammit)
<whew>  have fun

16 responses total.

I thought I should clarify about "picky".  I am sure many of you have seen
the endless fontish rants about politics.  I guess some of the Goddess
stuff scares me cuz I don't like some of the anti-these -people-or-other enter
into the stuff...and I have read a little bit and just sorta went...
Ok...and it felt empty.  

        Well, there's always the Judaeo-Christian-Islamic creation 
allegories, and those traditions don't really acknowledge the existence of
a feminine aspect to godhood (except Marianists, and to a lesser degree,
Catholics), which implies that if all of diety is male ... well, if it's not
a male homosexual creation symbol in very obscure terms, it's at least
masturbatory.  

        Monotheistic traditions tend to support a very limited range of
reasons-to-be-alive.  Polytheistic and especially animistic traditions tend
to be more respectful of the fact that different groups are not only not evil
or the enemy, but that different groups are needed within one society for it
to work well.

        Specifically, some native American religions have a roles that can only
be held by gay, or at least non-traditionally-gendered people.  I'm not really
up on the specifics, but I can look it up if it's of interest.

I think the word is berdache, a man who acts the role of a woman and has male
lovers.  Anyone know more details?

I've heard similar mention, of a spiritual category some tribes had for gay
men, but I don't really know much beyond that.  Yet another thing to look
into, I suppose.

Keesan's term and description are fair enough.

My impression was that their gender identity was more open than that, and
that they generally were given shamanistic roles in Amerind society.
(Being attuned to both female and male spiritual energies and such.)

I would definately like to learn more about this.(with all due respect to him)
My teacher doesn't have much info on this subject..

There are some interesting books in the public library on the subject. 
Supposedly berdaches did cooking and weaving, and such.

Are there women who did this sort of thing too, or is it a male thing?
<sigh, I was compelled to use "guy" but I often use it as a general asexual
term, so I used male to distinguish...(see item #19) I *do* have terms to
distinguish "one who was physically born male but isn't" from "one who was
born female but isn't" from "one who was born a man, likes dressing up like
a woman (whatever that means)" to the female equivalents (the latter of wich
aren't long to exist...or unless fasson trends continuc etc etc)
ACK!  I have also heard of Queer Pagans (also Witches...I have seen more than
a few in Ann Arbor)  I know the variations are vast for both of these...I do
not intend of becomeing a purple sheep.  <g>  (my private gag for a
blind(queer) follower)  I am just curious. (ears flutter in the wind)

I just wanted to clarify:  I went "ACK" because the stacking of words was
tedious and confusing looking.

I read about some place in Africa where powerful women could have 'wives',
who would do their cooking for them, and were legally considered the 'fathers'
of any children that these 'wives' had.  In other words, they acted the same
male role (in most respects) as any other 'husbands' (but presumably were not
too jealous if they wanted to have kids).

Interesting.
It seems to me a lot of conversations here are drifting to the topic of
'private wordinigs'.  This is a phrase I heard a linguist use a while ago to
describe the words you use _inside_ your head, not outside.  But between
font's various terms in this item and the ones previous, this is coming up
a lot.   It seems like a lot of the problem with words in the arena of
sexuality is that there are more divisions tahn there universally accepted
words, so people are forced to use private wordinigs like that just to get
their point across

Either that or a lengthy description.

awww.  I admit.  I am wordy, mouthy etc.  a tragedy, what?

No, very entertaining, I had no intention of calling you a blabbermouth, and
I think I have done a lot of blabbing myself about this topic in some item.
(Never let a linguist loose in a conference.)

<font cheers on the linguists...after all, language would be even more
confusing without them!>

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