<a little hesitant about being the 2nd item, but...>

        I'd like to impart a little story upon you all.  A little while ago,
I met a girl named Rebecca who's bi, and one night I fell asleep in her bed.
We both woke up sometimes in the very early morning and had an intense
discussion about things and life and such, and I ended up kissing her.  I'd
never kissed a girl before, but I think I've been attracted to a few in the
past...  Even though I'm not homophobic in the least, I find it a little
strange to be on the other end of things (having considered myself straight
all my life), and this is becoming a prominent question in my life-- *am* I
bi?  I'm obviously attracted to men (having a boyfriend (who I met on Grex
actually (; )).  But this is such a *new* thing for me...

        Any words of encouragement or advice?

86 responses total.

James Baldwin's book "Another Country" has some very beautiful pieces on
what you said in item 2.  I believe it is ok to check things out and see
what we feel.  Exploration in this area, I don't believe, is not a no
exit deal.

Quite a few people who consider themselves straight have had same-sex
experiences (including my male ex-lover)... quite a few people (more,
proportionately) who consider themselves gay have had opposite-sex
experiences.
So I wouldn't say you're necessarily bi, but if you're interested in
exploring, or feel the need to, don't feel constrained not to.

(and now that erinn's broken the ice, maybe we can start getting some more
items around here =} )

I read once that only ten percent of the population is completely straight,
and at the other end, ten percent is completely gay.  That leaves the rest
of us sitting somewhere in the middle of the graph, scratching our heads as
to wha we should do about all of this.  Its not just social pressures, will
my friends still accept me if they know I'm attracted to them, blah blah blah,
but there's also the fact that we all see that there has been lots of violence
shown towards people who are gay and bi, and regardless of whether this is
right or wrong, some of us have decided to stay still until it all calms down.
This is an effective plug of any relationship that might have started if we
lived in a society of open-minded people (which starts on another tangent that
I've done pages about before, so I'll stop right here).

Hm, I dunno that I'd feel persecuted if I declared myself bi (but then again,
look at where I am now and where I plan to be in ten years).... The
interesting thing about bi people is thgat sometimes when they have a run in
with a very homopphobic person, they're either treted like a freak or the fact
that they like their own sex as well as the opposite is simply overlooked.
(Agh, typos...)

hey people.  I'm a bisexual guy I have been in a straight relationship for
11yrs.  I dont think in your case nightengale you should put a lable on
yourself  just yet.  The reason beiing that  your not totaly sure  you are,
and one other thing i belive in is that gay  or bi one should not wear there
sexuality on ther forehead.  When you get down to it  what dose the opinion
of your friends have to do who or what you do in bed..I'm trying to explain
mysele her and be understood at the same time so if i loose you let me know
just e-mail me ok.  I thik its just something you either like or want to
explore..see ther are many of straight guys and women who do some really far
out sex practices  and for you  and i know in my case same sex situtations
is just something i like to do.  I like the whole atmospher of gay sex.  so
please dont worry about wether or not you should tell your friend if they ask
say simply  well it is somthing i  like to do or try.  but dont hate me just
because its not for you, and then make it clear to them that you know they
arent interested in  that type of sex.....(see that will reestablish thier
sexuality boundries)  there fore you wouldn't ever empose that type of
situtation on them.
  I'm courious dose your boy friend know?  and perhaps if you told him you
might find out he had a simillar situtation in his past...see guysten
masterbate and think of other guys or even further have  jackked off with a
buddy in a non-gay situtation before..... just my thoughts....
 pleas e-mail me if anyone wants to replay in  person....

You know what seems funny?  Years ago, if someone admitted they were gay or
bi, they usually felt guilty.  But nowadays, I feel guilty and horrible for
being straight.  It's almost as if bi or gay is the norm now, and that
straight people are evil, close-minded persons.  Understand?  ;-)  <birdy
ponders>  I'm still not objecting to a relationship with a woman because I
still *don't* know how I feel...but I'm simply LOTS more attracted to men.
I love women because they're hugging, sympathetic creatures who understand
me.  I love men because they provide security, warmth, protection, and make
me feel sexy.  The only difference is that with women, I don't feel the
intense sexual drive.  <shrug>

Erinn -- the key question is...did you *enjoy* the kiss?  That may provide
you with the answer to your question in #0.

Hm...I did enjoy the kiss (even tho' I discovered that the thing I liked least
about it was that her tongue is incredibly short (; ).  I like french kissing.
And I liked kissing her.  But I don't know if I'd enjoy sex with a woman--
yet I'm not adverse to the idea.  Just as I'm not adverse to the idea of gay
sex, and if I was a guy, I could see myself as being bi... Anywya, she's not
interested in the least anymore.  And I'm having bf troubles...*sigh*  Oh,
and Kurt, my bf knows about the incident.  We have an interesting
relationship.  Our sexual liasons are unimportant for the ost part (aslong
as we take care of ourselves), just as long as he knows that I love him.
And I do.

*brighn DESPISES the moniker "Straight but not narrow" but notes that most
queers seem to appreciate it*
  
The purpose of the Kinsey scale (or the point of it, if not the purpose) is
that few people fall clearly under the "completely straight" or "completely
gay" label... most people have varying degrees of attraction to both genders,
and the question has been, how MUCH attraction do you need to have before
you're bi, or gay, or straight?

And that's in general a personal issue. Clearly someone who has never been
interested in a MOTOS (Opposite SEx) and has had dozens of relationships with
a MOTSS (Same Sex) would be hard pressed claiming to be straight, but beyond
the extremes, people are fairly free to label themselves as they please since
only they know where there attractions really lie.

Hmmm... I don't think I much care for the term "straight" myself.  Why do I
have to be straight just because I'm heterosexual?  The queers have
appropriated the concept of queerness!  I want to be queer too!  (Not to
mention gay)  I quite like the friendly insulting tone of the term
"breeders".  I don't consider myself one of them, though.

It is very interesting to observe the process of self-identification, and
self-description, though.  It seems like a lot people approach the question
of their own sexuality with a statement along the lines of "I am *a*
<something>" similarly to the way you would identify yourself as a member
of an ethnic group.  I'm surprised that there is so much significance
attached to that.  To me the question of what you *do* is more interesting
than what you *are*.

There...I changed it.  Happy?  =)

Ecstatic. =} Thanks, hon.

Very accomodating of you, Birdlady.  You can call *me* pretty much anything
you want, though--especially since we seem to have pretty much similar
feelings about being straight, or whatever we are.  You queers can call me
anything you want, too--I just hope you are sympathetic to our loneliness
and feelings of inadequacy.  <This is written with a good-natured smile
about the delicious complexities of life.>

So was mine.  =)
<birdy muses over the phrase "delicious complexities and decides she likes
it>

i think just because you liked the idea of the "first kiss" that you shouldn't
label your self as bi.  being a bi female in todays world is just as common
as having a beer with a pizza.  but i think that society
is pushing women to be bi.  but you should be what you want.  if your not sure
what that is, then take a step back and try to imagin yourself with a women
and not a man.  and then take it from there.  no matter what you realize, you
need to find yourself before you can awnser thath question.

If you're bi, you can iagine yoruself with a woman and a man or a women or
a man.
And some of the woemn considering bi0sexuality hav to consider what if would
be like beyond a first time
with a man. I know some popel who've neve had relationships or sex with
MOSOS's

I never drink beer with my pizza.  d=

<tries to remember if she ever had beer with pizza and fails to remember>

I have no problem with being bi.....sometimes I think guys really do belong
in a seperate catagory from women (I hate it when ppl seperate girl-people
from boy-people...grrr...people are people, damn it)....esp. times like these
when I have suddenly gained three new guy friends who are as enigmatic as can
be....

I'm confused. why do you separate peopple, then say you hate it ?

Exactly.  I found myself doing that and thought, What a hypocrite, Erinn. 
I don't separate ppl into those catagories, but I guess in an effort to
understand how this enigmatic friend of mine wsas probably thinking, I wasn't
discounting the possibility of him looking at girl-ppl and boy-ppl....*shrug*
That probably made little to no sense....  arg.

I don't mind seperating people. There are undeniable genetic differences
betqeen men and women. It's just the definiton is rathr part of a physcial
description than anything else. If I want you to find my find Person
Q. who is waiting for you on the beach, telling you person Q is wearing
a blue shirt, a white backpack, and black shoes is all very nice and dancy
but it would help you more if i told you that they're tall, female, asian
and have dyed part of their black hair pink. Really, it would.
There are distinctions. They just don't mean anything outside of the physcial

whoa, this has been dead for a while...
but i agree with BOTH views, how can they both be right though??hmm
it is impossible not to separate people, and at time i think it is safe to
say we all ahve unconsciencly been one ....-ist or another.
on the other hand it is unfair to use stereotypes (guilty)
or to label poeple in general, I am a hater of labels period, but still cannot
seem to avoid using the myself....hehe life goes on.

Actually... Brighn and I were talking about stereotyppes in the car
last night and I came to the conclusion that its OK to stereotype people
as long as every stereotype comes with a footnote "working definition"
we classify people (others and oursevles) for ease of description.
Am I stereotyping my friends if I'm trying to tell someone how to find
one of them and describe them as "gothic vampirists with weird haircolors
and leather jackets"? You couldn't find them 1/2 as easily if I told you
they were nice people who were interested in art and liked eating at I-HOP
To me a stereotype is a misuable working definition. Some people forget
that no one is a textbook case, and that a single person can fit many
stereotypes or twist them. Still, it would bve hard to function
without them.

        Stereotyping is a good survival skill - you have to be able to be very
wary of people in trench coats in dark alleys, and at the same time, be open
with your lover - though one might have your best interests at heart, and the
other not.  As long as it doesn't close your mind ...

        A good movie to watch is _Love and Human Remains_, one of the few
really good "Generation X" films about "Generation X" relationships and the
new complexities this era's brought about.  It features a psychic dominatrix,
a recently self-discovered gay cynic, a bisexual woman afraid to love anyone
but those who can't love her back, and a host of others.

Speaking of stereotypes...

I would notice a *huge* difference in the store security's attitude if I wore
my trenchcoat and combat boots one day and my varsity jacket the next.

        That's basic security, though - trenchcoats are wonderful for
concealing things and combat boots go along with the kind of attitude that
a certain segment of shoplifters have.  It should set off warning bells.  But
it's kind of neat to take the reins of the singals we give off, and see how
people react to it, huh?

very ;} having been in many minor teenage traffic accidents
(NEVER having been the driver, or under the influence of anything
not prescribed by a psychiatrist ;} --err the drivers that is...
and me too, but what/if I was only anything is hardly relevant)
I can attest to the fact that the cops treat you VERY differently
not based entirely on yur attitude, but on how you're dressed!
(I mean, if you're obnoixious to them, they START to treatyou
badly, but if you're dressed a particular way you've already
got a strike against you). Oddly, I can't make an overall statement
about what they like and dislike. I've seen they very rude to
jocks in varsity jackets for being hotshot kids; very rude to
your goth-punkis forn being well... goth-punks, and I've seen
them tyranical with people dressed completely normally, nicely
even, with normal hair and makeup (or lack thereof) just because
they were young.

aint it the truth!
I've changed cars, get pulled over much more often ('k so it's my fault)
and hell get pulled over in a nice car with a shirt and tie..hey damn near
as good as a bribe to a dirty cop!

I don't entirely blame the police... I think it's just
an issue of perceptions and taking stereotypes too far.
;}

It is funny that this disscussion should come up... this has come to play in
my life recently.  I worked as asstiant props master for the play _The
Marriage of Figaro_, and had to do some shoping for props that appeared
period.  The first time I looked for the things I needed to get at antique
stores, I dressed as I usually do; jeans, untucked t-shirt with a random logo
on it (earth day, or tori amos, or interlochen, or something), ratty boots,
and my backpack.  Every time I entered a store, someone would follow me,
constantly asking if I needed any help, if there was anything they could help
me find.  The second time I went out, I wore khakis, a shirt taht I tucked
in, and carried a leather shoulder bag.  No one followed me, and the
reactions I got upo9n informing ppl what I was looking for were much more
encouraging.
        The talk of sterotypes as working definitions reminds me of something
a teacher of mine once said... "Generalizations are very helpful at times,
but we must also recognize that they are often wrong."

"a kiss is just a kiss," as the old song goes. It still amazes me that there
are a lot of people confused about their sexuality. As far back as I can
remember, I knew what I desired. My body simply responded differently to men
and women. I think deep down inside, we all know what we really are-- whether
it be homo, hetero or bi; the problem is that a lot of people don't want to
admit it to themselves. Whenever I hear someone say, "I didn't know I was gay
until I was 30, or whatever, I think what they are really saying is "I didn't
admit to myself that I was gay until I was 30. For those of you who are still
confused, the answer is within you, not from questionaires, advice columns,
therpay, or friendly advice from a friend. Look inside...

It always bugs me when people say that sort of thing.  Sure, in retrospect
I can find hints as to my sexuality as far back as  Elementary school, but
at the time those hints meant nothing to me.  If when I was 13 or 14 years
old someone had said "look within and tell me what your sexual orientation
is", I'd've said 'straight' - yeah, it probably was just a good case of
denial, but for all practical purposes I _really didn't know_.

Really.  Sexuality is a complicated thing because it has alot to do with that
big monster PSYCHOLOGY.  And if you know what you desire, well that's good
for you.  But if something (*anything*) is easy for you you'd better thank
your lucky stars, and try to think that perhaps it doesn't work the same way
for other people.  After all, it's the same line of thinking (well, if I'm
straight/gay/bi, then so must everyone else!) or rather, the same (un)logic.
There is such an amazing variety of people/ideas./ways of thinking etc out
there!  And it's the secret of our survival.  Too bad humanity seems 
driven to pare it down.

um.. agreed, afreed, agreed.

I second the motion.

Sexuality is complicated because people make it complication. Oppression does
horrible things to a person. If there were no sexual oppression, then I think
that the whole issue of sexuality would be even easier. The "big monster
PSYCHOLOGY" is something I like to think I know a few things about. Although
I certainly have no Ph.d., I'm a breath away from acheiving my BS in Psych.
I'm the first to admit that their are a wide variety of people out there, and
I know we're all different to some degree. I have done a lot of personal
research on the issue, and the most common response that I get from people
about their sexuality...

I was reading a Ph.D's response in an advice article concerning his notion
that sexuality is more rooted in psychology than actual biology.  (So how do
you explain octopi and Bonobo chimps?)  Anyway, it was interesting..probably
ruffled a few feathers already.  I might post it.

sorry I didn't finish my statement. I was interrupted. Even among the
so-called experts, the verdict isn't in. However, I do believe that sexuality
has more to do with biology-- meaning that we don't learn to have a sex drive.
It's apart of our biological makeup. Animals don't learn to have a sex drive,
and neither do humans, who after all are a part of the Animal Kingdom. But
obviously, it's a bit more complicated in humans. I think that no one will
agree on what causes homosexuality for a long time, at least until the Gnome
project is complete, and the "homosexual" gene is isolated, if it ever is.
My personal belief is that homosexuality is genetic, though I don't expect
many people to agree with that. I realize, however, that there is far from
conclusive evidence to prove this viewpoint, though some of the preliminary
research looks promising.  It is a well known fact that homosexuality exists
in the Animal Kingdom, as well as bisexuality (the Bonobo Chimps for
instance). For most species, sexuality is not a long, much discussed,
complicated issue. It simply happens. Without the complicated intervention
of culture, I don't think that sexuality would be a very complicated issue
for humans. So, to rephrase what I mentioned earlier, I don't think that the
"big monster psychology", is such a great factor as "the big monster
culture". Of course, this is my opinion. I'm sorry if this offends anyone,
but this is how I feel.

Joe, I have to disagree with your attement that sexual orientation is (or
should be) clear from the beginning.  For some people a sex urge is a strong
and undeniable part of their makeup.  For them, orientation would be pretty
hard to miss.  But for someone who has a less insistant drive and or who is
bi it wouldn't necessarily be so obvious.  If I have a milder sex urge than
average and I don't find myself attracted to those I expect to be attracted
to, I could not notice my mild attraction to the unexpected and just think
sex doesn't interest me as much as it seems to interest other people.  If I
have that milder urge and find it pulls me randomly toward men and women
alike, I might not realize what the attraction signifies.  I could interpret
it as something else.

I do see where you're coming from, Joe, because my drive has been pretty
strong for as long as I can remember.  But I've known people for whom sex was
mainly a curiosity.  If they were attracted to someone they didn't expect to
be attrcated to they could very well have interpreted it as an intellectual
fascination.  (And they may well have.)  Also, romantic love and sex are
different -- someone who can fall in love with either sex may not realize that
the sex part would be more satisfying with a partner of the other sex until
they grew a little older and more experienced.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss