Is anyone in grex old enough to describe premenopause, such as what are the
symptoms, what age do they start, etc.?  

75 responses total.

Well, looks like grexers are all under 40 or I have finally found a taboo
subject.  According to the books, by age 45 or so, or roughly 5-7 years before
menopause, I should expect periods of increasingly irregular length
(shorter or longer or both) and missed periods, and possibly some of the
symptoms of actual menopause, such as hot flashes and irritability.  But it
is supposed to be normal to occasionally miss a period before that.  One other
thing I read is that estrogen levels are gradually dropping, but at some point
the ovaries somehow decide to put out more (two eggs instead of one ripen?)
and one's period therefore might get a bit shorter for a few years.  I have
not missed a period in at least 30 years (I am 47 now), if anything they are
more regular now than ten years ago (except once when I missed a night's sleep
about mid-cycle it was two weeks late -does that count?) but at 41 the cycle
suddenly shortened from 28-32 days to 26-30 days.  Has this happened to anyone
else, and does it get longer again eventually, or what happens next?  Am I
doomed to never reach menopause?

I know somebody who is 52 and hasn't reached menopause yet.  It may run in
the family.  Ask your older female relatives when they reached menopause.

My mother had radiation in her early fifties which ended things early (and
then she died, can't ask her.)

(are we still supposed to be wondering if keesan is male or female?)

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Could this be an indication that you have found your*special* guy.
Re #4, is this what it feels like to come 'out'?  There do seem to be some
things that guys don't write about.
What other sorts of things affect cycle length?   Mine always used to be a
week or so late around finals time or if I had the flu.

(Well, there's a dead giveaway if ever I heard one)

Hmmm...I've been on the Pill for almost two years now, so I'm dead-on regular.
Things that used to affect it were a severe change in diet (I was a vegetarian
for about six months), *high* levels of stress (like a breakup), and changing
my exercise schedule.  

I never noticed a change if I had bronchitis or another illness.  Amoxicillin
would screw with my system something awful, but it never affected my cycle.

What sorts of changes in diet and exercise are you talking about?  I read that
natural estrogens, as found in soy products, help alleviate such things as
PMS, due to hormonal swings.  Have any of the men reading this item noticed
that soy products affect their moods in any way? (Or cause their beards to
fall out or grow thicker....).

They call it "perimenopause", prefix meaning "around" instead of "pre" for
"before", and I'm in it, but I have some tax forms to do now, so ....

It has been suggested that this is a sensitive subject, possibly because
women don't like to admit they are growing older.  Is this true?

Not to me.  Women of this age in this society tend to be very busy!

Good luck with your taxes, especially if you are self-employed or have any
capital gains income this year.  It took me at least 10 tries to get it right.

Someone suggested I read about St. John's Wort as a treatment for menopausal
problems.  There seem to be a lot of herbal medicines that address the various
problems.  At www.healthy.net/library/articles/hfh/menopause.htm (l?) I found
a well-written summary.  Menopausal symptoms arise because the estrogen levels
fall to about 10% and the progesterone levels to zero, and include insomnia,
depression, stiff joints, bloating, vaginal dryness, sore breasts, and hot
flashes.  This does not sound all that different from the couple of days
before menses, when hormone levels also plummet, so perhaps the same types
of herbs would work for both.  Has anyone tried any herbal remedies and had
any good effects from them?  THe article listed black cohosh, which is a
diuretic (reduces fluid retnetion) and helps with nerves, as well as vitex,
which regulates progesterone levels, thereby reducing bloating, headache and
fatigue.  St. John's Wort is a mild antidepressant, and you should avoid
taking it and then going out in the sun because of possible photodermic
reacations (light sensitivity, which is also true for parsnips, by the way).
Dandelion flowers reduce water retention, and ginseng and liquorice are good.
        For hot flashes, the suggestion was to improve diet (avoid caffeine
and alcohol) and get more regular exercise.  I would also like to hear more
about how diet and exercise have helped with PMS.  Soy products?

It seems to me like St. John's Wort is being proposed as a remedy for
everything these days.  If it's still being reccomended for menopause in a
few months, when the crase has died down, you might give it a try...

Yes, I also noticed it in a document about attention deficit disorder.  What
else are they recommending it for.  (It grows wild around here.)

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What is the active ingredient in raspberry leaf tea?  I thought it was just
the tannin, or maybe the vitamin C.

Evidently not, or regular tea would work just as well.

I should try to find the answer on the internet.  I found a list of foods that
help alleviate PMS because of their content of B vitamins and magnesium;
nuts (peanuts, almonds, cashews, walnuts, pecans)
green leafy vegetables and cabbage
whole wheat, buckwheat, millet
bananas (very high B6), avocadoes (essential fatty acids), egg yolks, liver,
cantaloupe, brewer's yeast (all the B vitamins)
soy products (tofu, tempeh, soy milk, which also have natural plant estrogens)
        The relative amounts of estrogen and progesterone fluctuate, which can
cause PMS and menopausal symptoms, so progesterone cream is also being used
to treat both.  Diosgenin, a natural progesterone, is found in soy. 
Progesterone levels plummet a couple of days before menses, I will try eating
more tofu and tempeh then and during the first few days  of menses.

Reduce or eliminate consumption of sugar, salt, caffeine, alcohol, and red
meat, and eat twice as often to reduce PMS.

Men's hormone levels are also affected by diet.  A high-fiber low-meat diet
helps to bind testosterone in the feces thereby lowering blood levels.  High
blood levels are a risk factor for prostate cancer.  One article said to take
zinc, B6 and soy oil.  (Or eat properly I would think).  Men's prolactin
levels drop with age, leading to more uptake of testosterone (from where,
foods, such as red meat?)  Chinese men have 1/120 the mortality from prostate
cancer as black men in San Francisco, due to diet and maybe genetics?

Red raspberry leaf tea contains vitamins A, B complex, C and E, and minerals
calcium, magnesium, iron, potassium and phosphorus.  (I had heard of it as
a source only of C).  It also contains the alkaloid fragrine, given during
pregnancy to strengthen uterine and pelvic muscles, and relax opposing
muscles, and it also reduces postpartum bleeding.  (I can see how it might
have useful effects during menses, possibly reducing cramps.)
        I read that high testosterone levels also predispose towards high blood
pressure and baldness.  Men at the top of the ladder tend to have higher
levels, also higher stress.

St. John's Wort (www.lifelink.com/hyper.html) showed up when I was checking
on the effects of electromagnetic radiation on melatonin production (Agora
66, dowsing).  The plant was named because it blooms around St. John's Day
June 24.  It is Hypericum perforatum.  Contains hypericin and pseudohypericin,
which raise serotonin level and therefore have an antidepressant effect
something like Prozac but without the side effects or reactions.  It is used
to treat Seasonal Affective Disorder (a disturbance in serotonin production
due to reduced amount of daylight, which also acts on melatonin, which is
formed from serotonin, which is formed from the amino acid tryptophan found
in all proteins, which enters the brain more after eating carbohydrates, which
is why a glass of milk makes you sleep - sugar and protein).  More recently,
there has been research on its anti-viral properties.  One study showed that
it eliminated hepatitis virus (study was not cited, though) and it is being
studied for use against AIDS.  The tea is nowhere near as active as the
extract.   Some species of St. John's Wort grows around here.  (So this has
nothing to do with estrogen or progesterone effects, just mood directly).

I read two books about menopause last year.  From these I remember two
allegations: 1. Perimenopause can be four to ten years long.  2. For most
women, what causes symptoms is not *low* hormone levels, but *falling*
hormone levels -- and during perimenopause, they fluctuate a lot.

I had my first warm flashes over a year ago, I think, when I was 46.
They went away if I regularly took a vitamin E supplement.  Now they are
hotter, and come despite E.   Other than that, I can't say
definitely that any particular symptom is only hormone-related, 
especially since I've always been a low-energy person and the last year
and a half has been quite stressful.  (My periods stopped for several
months, started again when I increased calcium intake -- was it
menopause-related?  Was I depressed because our cat died, because my
father died, because of menopause, or something else?)

In my teens, my periods used to skip summers.  Is that when yours stopped for
a few months?  The heat can be stressful, or maybe the longer day length
affects estrogen production?  Hormone levels also fall during the week before
menses, and the symptoms sound similar.  I feel warm a day or two before, when
both estrogen and progesterone are lowest, after feeling cold for a few days
before that.  Are there also cold spells during perimenopause?  I will check
out vitamin E and calcium for their relation to hormone levels.
        What causes other people's periods to be late or missed?

One summer when I was at camp, my period never came.  I wasn't complaining
as I could swim daily and not worry about it.

My period also tends to be delayed around exams.

Of course, I'm an odd datapoint.  My sister started her period last year and
is already regular.  I'm still not regular.

I used to get the whole summer (4 months) period-free in my mid-teens, and
was not really regular until grad school, and was generally a week late
around exams.  Maybe your sister is a very low-stress person.

I looked up Vitamin E.  First, it is nontoxic in large doses for adults, but
can kill infants, who cannot cope with excesses.  Then there is a debate about
whether the alpha or gamma form is more effective.  Gamma  is found in
polyunsaturated oils like corn and soy, but may not work best.  The
supplements are usually alpha, in use since the 1940s.  I found 613 documents
on the internet with the words "vitamin E" and "hot flashes".  Lots of them
claimed that vitamin E reduces hot flashes, which 80% of menopausla women
experience, especially thin women who have less fat cells to make estrogen.
(PMS is supposed to be worse in fatter women, who make too much estrogen -
can't win both ways).  One study demonstrated that vitamin E had no
significant effect compared to a placebo (sugar pill or the like), both helped
in about 25% of cases.  Maybe it was a stress reduction?  Or maybe the people
in this study were already getting enough to start with?
Vitamin E protects LDL (good) cholesterol from oxidation and thus also reduces
heart disease.  (Cholesterol is used to make estrogen, any connection?).
Vitamin E can relieve sore breast problems in PMS if you are deficient. 
SOmetimes Vitamin B6 helps in some people with PMS, if deficient to start.
One suggestion was that sugar and salt may not in themselves cause PMS
symptoms, but if you eat a lot of sweet and salty junk food you will not be
getting enough vitamins in your food.
        My somewhat out of date nutrition book says vitamin E does not help
to prevent heart attacks  (in people who already have heart attacks).
        Natural vitamin E is found in plants, not animals, and is destroyed
by heat and oxidation.  Eat lots of fresh vegetables and whole grains.
        There are claims that selenium (an antioxidant) and zinc can also help
with hot flashes.  Selenium is toxic in relatively low doses.
        If Vitamin E helps you, whether or not it is a placebo effect, there
is no reason not to use it.

I was never really regular. I eventually got put on the mini-pill three years
ago to even me out. I'd skip for three months, then would go for a week, then
get it again the next week. Or it would last about 10 days. Skipping was ok
with me except I was paranoid about starting any second. But when I got
marathon periods I had enough. I was becoming anemic. Now I love the mini-pill
because I'm now like clockwork. Plus I seem to be lighter, although I cramp
more than I did before. Small price to pay as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe you should try Valerie's raspberry leaf tea?  I am starting to think
I am really abnormal, being regular at age 47.  What is 'normal'?  It took
me at least 5 years to get regular, but I don't recall length of flow varying
at all, just time between periods.  Anyone else with irregular flow length?

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How many vitamin-C-fortified chocolate chip cookies do you have to eat
to get that 1000mg of vitamin C each day?

Valerie, don't you eat fruit and vegetables?  Brocolli, cabbage, etc.
I also have sort of an undulatory pattern - medium, heavy, light,
medium-light, nothing, very light.  Wonder what causes that sort of pattern.
A vitamin C deficiency can raise blood cholesterol levels.  I wonder if that
means the cholesterol is not being converted to estrogen the way it should
be, because you have little vitamin C.  
        Walter, may I have your recipe for vitamin C cookies?
        Does anyone else have little PMS but headaches during menses?  I get
them usually about the 3rd or 4rth day, but if it is a bit late, I get them
earlier, and if a bit early, headaches as late as day 6.  They last a day or
two.  Chicken bouillon or milk help a bit, soysauce does not.  (I am supposed
to be vegan but make exceptions).   A friend with terrible PMS, who gets awful
headaches for a week and throws up, says only red meat helps her.  (Along with
chocolate cake, chocolate ice cream and salty potato chips, her usual diet).
I wonder if the animal products have some estrogen in them.  Eating tempeh
around that time seems to reduce headaches developing.  Does anyone know more
about PMS and soy?  It was a craze a while ago.
        Valerie, why do you feel odd writing about this sort of thing after
all the graphic details of pregnancy (your questions, as I recall)?

You gave yourself scurvy?! Oy! And I thought I was bad by giving myself
horrible ear infections from living on microwave/fast food for months.

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Maybe historically women have been told that it is good to be pregnant, and
periods are a sign of failure, as is perhaps also menopause?
        Ovary twinges supposedly occur around the time of ovulation.  Have you
noticed whether the right and left twinges alternate, or whether you are
solely a 'lefty'? (That was supposed to be a joke).
        I found an interesting site on PMS at www/teleport.com/~ibis/pms.html.
Most of the 48 pages are on Chinese remedies and acupuncture, but the first
few list things on symptoms and suggested diet (there seems to be a lot of
overlap on foods to avoid and suggested foods to eat).  See /a/k/e/keesan/pms
(within the next few days, I have too many files and will be erasing some).
They suggest a vegan diet, high fiber, low fat (10%).  Avoid meat, salt,
sugar, alcohol, fat, caffeine and dairy, also cabbage family, and estrogenic
foods such as tomator/pepper/eggplant, carrot, apple, cherry, soy, coconut,
rice barley, oats wheat (not much left), and recommend garlic oninos legumes
kep apples (!) sesame brewer's yeast alfalfa carrots (!) dark greens, cabbage
(!), Magnesium calcium B vitamins, and the essential fatty acids as found in
vegetables, nuts, seeds, flaxseed, soy and fish, and evening primrose oil.

Then I hunted up headaches, which are caused by an imbalance of
prostaglandins, which it turns out are made from essential fatty acids, of
which there are omega-3 (linolenic) and omega-6 (linoleic).  One of them is
found in seeds, the other in things that have to remain flexible in cold
weather, such as leaves, fish, and kelp, and the latter is usually in shorter
supply in Americans.  I think soy was also high in that one, may explain why
tempeh helps.  I will try eating more seaweed around that time, plus soy. 
Anxiety and irritability are caused by high estrogen low progesterone, and
depression by the opposite.  Now to find a soy product that is low estrogen
but high in fatty acids....

Ginger tea is also recommende for a week before your period, as is regular
eating.

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I noticed a shelf full of books at the library on yeast infections, which I
have not read (don't have that problem), but I heard that eating yogurt can
help.  THe yogurt bacteria put out antibiotics that kill their competitors,
and they also make an acid environment.  (I am not sure about applying
yogurt).  And a sugary diet encourages yeast growth.  Diarrhea just before
your peiod may be related to hormones causing sugar levels in the intestines
to be higher, which may be why you should avoid eating sugary foods.
Did you know women have a better sense of smell just before their periods
because the mucus lining of the nose is thinner?  I may go read the Internet
on yeast infections and see if anything looks promising.
        I am wondering if I have the opposite ratio of essential fatty acids
from most Americans, being a mostly vegan, and if I should look for some foods
that have omega-6 instead of omega-3 (or vice versa?), maybe that is why milk
and chicken bouillon help.  I probably don't eat enough salt or fat, thought
at first the salt was what helped, but soysauce did not help headaches.
        Valerie, have you tried a low carbohydrate diet for a few days?

I think applying yoghurt would probably have the opposite effect than desired.

Nope, I actually found a website that suggested it and gave directions, and
e-mailed the info to Valerie (on the grounds that it would not be of use to
some of our other readers).  Eating or applying garlic also help (if you don't
mind smelling funny).  Or applying vinegar for acidity.
        Do men get yeast infections anywhere?

Not to my knowledge.  Not in my experience, certainly.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss