It's not a very cheerful topic to discuss around the holidays, but this is the
time when woman battering occurs quite frequently.  This may be partially due
the streses endemic to the holiday season, or the fact the people do alot of
drinking and partying at this time.  But what I am interested in starting a
discussion about is, what the rest of you think about the fact that it is
frequently extremely difficult to help a battered woman leave her abuser. 
Spouse abusal has been a problem throughout history, and no doubt will continue
to be a problem.  The numbers and fequencies have not dimished in spite of the
women's movement. What is also of interest, is that in some statistical
studies, about 45% of the assaults on women were accompanied by similar
assaults on at least one child in the househole.  Ninety-five  percent of the
victim/mothers did not report their husband to the authorities for child abuse.

78 responses total.

Very few of those who are hit on by organized crime for "protection money"
say no or go to the police.  There isn't much difference.  Those with power
will happily look aside while those without are abused, so long as the victims
don't seem to be too much like them.....anonymous-victim crime draws a far
greater police response in "good" neighborhoods for about the same reason...

This response has been erased.

  4) fear that the alternatives would be worse than the present.
     This may come from a rose-colored view of the present ("he loves
     me, I love him, this wasn't all *that* bad and maybe he won't do
     it again") or it may be a reasonable judgment based on incorrect
     assumptions about the alternatives.  In particular, a perception that

   1-a) worthless human beings can't expect a better deal anywhere else.

This is a topic that needs to be addressed by help organizations and
the mass-media.  A variety of PSRs offering help organizations.  Most
people watch television.  I've seen a dribble of support for this on
T.V.  There could be much more.  Lots of men still think consciously
or subconsciouly that "the b____ deserves it", so there's still the
cultural inertia to contend with.

Lots of the time, the subcultures in which battered women live have
this as part of the milleiu so friends get together and commiserate, but
theires not this big push to get out of the bad marriage or relationship.

There are a number of reasons why women don't leave their abusers;several
have already been mentioned...  Often, the woman doesn't realize there
ARE better options, sometimes doesn't know how to break the visous cycle.
Sometimes its a norm, many of these women have been abused as children and
have seen their own mothers abused, so they don't know that it isn't
'normal'.

And the sad thing is, its something that in general, society doesn't feel
comfortable talking about; its so easy to ignore it. Espeically with
the various kinds of abuse--physical, sexual, emotional... Its hard to 
make yourself believe its really happening and then convincing others
that this 'wonderful' guy is really a monster...

If their are children involved, there is concern for their well-being
as well (this might more often be a motivator for male victims, since it 
is more difficult for a male to get custody, but it's certainly a major
concern for both sides)...

This response has been erased.

Interesting, my father had to fight for custody.
But, I don't know general stats, just specific incidents.

 Dead for almost a year, this item? Ack! All I can say is... foget about why
she doesn't leave. How about "Why does he think it's ok to beat her?"

From a full-time cop and a part-time cop/911 dispatcher (wolfmage & otter):
The worst season for domestic violence is late January.
The worst day/time for domestic violence is Sunday afternoon.
I think you've hit on (no pun intended) the basic reasons women don't leave
a situation like that: little/no self esteem, fear he'll find her and drag
her back, perceived lack of alternatives.
The most frustrating thing is getting a call to break up a domestic fight,
then having the battered party not take action against the batterer. If the
batterer never suffers consequences, the violence will continue and usually
escalates in scope over time. Sending the scum to jail, then tossing his
personal posessions out the door and having him served with a restraining
order tends to get the point across.
And the stories you hear about restraining orders not being effective/enforced
are *rare* exceptions.

"Sleeping with the enemy" comes to mind as an obvious Hollywood scare film
along the lines of "You can run, but you can't hide, he'll *always* find you."

I'd heard the January, Sunday-afternoon stat was a myth (what happens on 
a Sunday afternoon in January?  Why, the Super Bowl, of course!).  I dunno,
though... maybe the link between football and spouse abuse is not one of
causation but rather of two symptoms of the same disease.  Football is
to some degree a catharsis.  Spouse abuse is to some degree a catharsis
(passing the emotional shit along).  *shrug*  Just a thought.

I'd be interested to see when the most female-to-male spouse abuse occurs.
But then, very few researchers pay attentiont o *those* numbers...

This response has been erased.

Valerie, sometimes I think some men around you say things like that just
because they know it gets your goat.  If not, a response like, "Your
aspirations in life are overwhelming" might put him in his place.  On the
other hand, that might be too subtle for a pea brain whose goal is . . to see
the game.

Could you ladies keep it down?  It's Sunday afternoon... I'm trying to
watch the game.

*hides*

*doesn't even watch football, though his wife does (at least one of them...
he should ask the other one...)*

This response has been erased.

Sounds like the world of 1950's TV sitcoms and newspaper comic
strips. I thought we'd moved beyond that.

The "battering peaks during the Superbowl" is an urban legend, btw.
No truth in it.  

Speaking as a non-fan of football (I seldom even know who's playing
in any of the bowl games) married to a woman who follows Michigan
religiously, I would like to know what's wrong with wanting to watch
a football game on TV, and why it's necessary to put someone down for
wanting to do so.  If the reasons are convincing enough, I'll try
some of the suggested put-downs on my wife next time and report back
to everyone here on the outcome.  I don't see any harm in her watching
the games, but if you-all convince me I'm wrong about that, I'll get
on her case next time I catch her watching a game.  Thanks for the input.

Re remmers's comment about 1950s sitcoms and comic strips, I wonder 
if it's ever been remarked that with a few notable exceptions 
(mainly Lucille Ball) it's the men, not the women, who were 
routinely portrayed as bumbling, stupid, lazy and gullible.  The 
wives tended to be the stable personalities whose level heads saved 
their families from their husbands' crack-brained plans.  Even in "I 
Love Lucy," where the wives' over-the-top zaniness was the comic 
hook, the husbands were given equal time in dunce hats -- ie, the 
entire cast was basically insane.  But in more typical sitcoms like 
"The Honeymooners," even when the husband was being such a moron 
that the wife could've acted a little silly herself and still looked 
good by comparison, the wife was *never* allowed to be anything but 
sane, strong, intelligent, reasonable.  That hasn't changed much 
over the years.  Ralph and Alice, Ozzie and Harriet, Dagwood and 
Blondie -- right down to Tim Allen and John Goodman on today's 
sitcoms.

I remember one "Roseanne" episode that was supposed to be a parody 
of the typical 1950s sitcom.  They must've spent a fortune on it: it 
was shot in faux-grainy black and white, and came complete with 
elaborate parodies of commercials.  The husband was portrayed as the 
all-knowing wisdom-dispensing lord of the house, and the wife was a 
silly creature slavishly subservient to him.  To one who grew up 
with those old sitcoms and remembers them well, it rang horribly 
false; but I got the impression that it would have been impolite to 
say so.  We're all expected to pretend that that's the way things 
used to be on TV, I guess.  

I have spent some time examining comic strips.  No hard and fast numbers,
but the following strips have portrayed wifes beating on husbands:
        Hagar
        Hi and Lois
        Spiderman
        Andy Capp
        The Lockhorns
        Curtis (girl on boy)
        Dennis the Menace (girl on boy)
        Beetle Bailey
        Peanuts (girl on boy)
        um... a few others, but they slip my mind right now
Of those, Andy Capp is the only one where the fighting is ever mutual.
I'm speaking of physical abuse of some sort or another.
Broaden it to obvious emotional abuse, and the list
gets *much* longer (Arlo and Janis, Willy and Ethel, etc. etc.).

Brighn, don't forget _Blondie_, _Bringing Up Father_, et al.

My father's favorite comic has been the Lockhorns, for as long
as I can remember.  He keeps some of them in his wallet and pulls
them out time and again he enjoys them so much.

I never did see why my mother married him.

Thanks, Bruin.  I also forgot Drabble.
*that* one surprised me when I saw it...

This response has been erased.

This response has been erased.

I've had two brothers in law to whom tv sports was "The only thing."  They
were completely oblivious to others around them if ANY sort of sports was on
tv.  One even went to a family wedding with a little tv and earphones and
snarled at anyone who tried to interrupt his game.  Needless to say, that was
just before the divorce. 

If I was unfortunate enough to be married to someone who could
sit on a couch, days on end, watching football and willing beer,
I'd also be fortunate he was so easily entertained and out of my
way.

s/swilling/willing

You're lucky they don't show Mystery Science Theater marathons
all that much on TV.

I probably should have said *some* 50s TV sitcoms and comic strips.
Things like "Lucy", "I Married Joan", Lockhorns", "The Little Woman".

I disagree entirely, Popcorn.  Comedy is almost always intended to be
true-to-life.  Wife-beating is perceived as a problem in our society.
Husband-beating is funny.  If it ididn't exist, then there wouldn't be
cartoons about it.

The Burns and Allen show was one of those that showed the wife as a ditz.
In reality, those on the inside say that George Burns would still be a
relative nobody if it weren't for Gracie Allen's savvy.  At any rate, 
there is a difference between the actual reality of a society and the
perceived/desired reality of a society.  The actual reality is now
and has been for quite some time (at least since  before the 1950s)
that women control a good deal of the household affairs.  The desired
reality int he 1950s was that men controlled everything.  The sitcoms
dealt with the discomfort that was felt between actual and desired reality
by portraying the actual reality in a comedic fashion.  That's the way
comedy (usually) works (absurdist Pythonesque stuff aside).

Likewise, the perceived (and, nauseating enough, *desired* by some 
extermist feminists) reality is that only women are the victims of 
domestic abuse.  The actual reality is that men and women 
are victims (probably at a ratio around 60 - 70 % female victim).  Again
cartoons are used to alleviate this disparity.  Not that one of the strips
I list is Spiderman.  Except for the superhero bit, this strip is 
definitely meant to be true to life.  The abuse in question was a face
slap.  Peter Parker had been kissed by another woman on tv, and Mare
Jane slapped him for it.

  Hey, can you broads shut the hell up for a while? I'm tryin' to watch the
game, and while yer at it-- Get me a beer?

  Now *that's* really un p.c, and can earn ya a black eye right quick, not
to mention a lump on the head where the can ort bottle of beer hit you. ;)

 Disclaimer: I entered this reponse for illustrative purposes only and was
not meant to reflect any feelings on my part toward the female gender, or any
member thereof. 

  Damn, I should be a lawyer.

Why would you want to lower yourself?  Where is your pride, man? ;-)

By way of relevance, look at Drabble today.
The wife's mother can't make it to Thanksgiving dinner.
The husband cheers and asks the wife for a victory high-5.
The next panel shows the woman scowling and the husband holding his
gut, as if he has just been socked.

Precisely what Omni was joking about, I think.

I hadn't given though to cartons really, but I agree with Popcorn on this
one. And although I Love Lucy is funny, it annoys me to watch because Lucy's
always having to beg her husband for $5, to be in his show, or to let her do
just about anything. He'd say no and then seh'd have to pull off some scheme
to do it, just like a 10 year old. Ricky had to keep her in line. Phew.

Ref: way back there...
My reference to late January and Sunday afternoons had absolutely nothing to
do with the Super Bowl or any other sporting event. Since they are for only
one Southern Michigan county, they may be anecdotal, but the stats do exist.
The connection to sporting events was inferred by the reader(s).
#33: yup. I have the same problem with I Love Lucy.

This response has been erased.

I assumed that late Jan & Sun afternoons were high domestic violence
times because of the short days & bad weather combining for a
depressiong scenario, plus the back to work blues which also lead to
depression.  In some people, depresssion turns easily into aggression.

Don't know what the stats are for drinking & beating, but I'd assume
that Sunday afternoons are good drinking times and beer/booze leads
to depression/aggression in many people.

Another problem time I've heard is Sat nights.

i remember one 'lucy' episode where she begged her husband
to *LET* her get her hair cut, and he refused!
so, she put on a wig of the cut she wanted and pretended to come onto
him as a different woman, just to test his loyality.
but ricky was tipped off by the hairdresser.

that episode sets my teeth on edge

My mom loves "I Love Lucy". It seems a lot of people are blind to how sexist
and horrible it was. They watch it and yearn for the old days. I was watching
Mystery Science Theater 3000 the other night, and it was some old b & w
movie about some woman who kept seeing vampires, but everyone thought she
was hysterical (would they have said that about a man?). The woman was in a
room with her fiance and her father. Her fiance said something like "Well,
soon she'll have my name, and I'll be the one who makes the decisions!". Both
the woman and her father nodded with happy eyes, as if to say "Sure, sounds
great!". I wanted to spit. And I want to spit when I see those damn nostaligic
Maxwell House Commercials... they skipped the onw in the 60s where a couple
were on a boat, and the husband holds the woman's head in his and goes "Now
you be a good Mawell Housewife, or you'll have to walk the plank!" She nods
and smiles.  IT JUST SUCKS!!!

He holds her head in his?  Eep!  That would be greusome!  :)
Any of that old days misty-eyed stuff reminds me of Jello Biafra's
"Nostalgia for an age that never existed"...

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss