personally i think it is the womens role to bring the husband a steak,  a
beer,  a remote control, a cigar,  and take care of the children,  and to take
care of the mans other needs
i thik it is the mans job to go and be the bread winner,  to bring the women
champagne and cavier,  put in the video tape when she wnats to watch it, his
job to be the male role model for the family,  he cuts the lawn,  washes the
cars,  and to satisfy his wife in bed too
i guess in that way it is a mutual thing in the traditional marriage
it goes that way in my family, mom and dad love the kids,   mom cooks and
cleans,  dad does the outside work,  the kids vacum and such,  both of the
parents work for $$$,  and i luv that atmosphere
that is my piece of mind

37 responses total.

Okay...that's how you feel.  Do you think it's okay for the two to trade
duties once in a while, though.  Like, if you lost your job, would you allow
your wife to work while you babysat?  If so, I like you.  If not, I feel your
views are chauvanistic.  If your parents are happy that way, more power to
them, but a woman shouldn't be forced into those duties.

I *did* kind of like how you put it, though.  You mentioned the man taking
care of the woman as equally as she takes care of him.  (Bringing her a tape,
caviar, etc).  =)  That was sweet.

Having nice well-defined traditional roles certainly means that you don't have
to worry you head too much and can sit back and enjoy your piece of mind. 
You don't really have that much of a relationship with your woman.  You mainly
have a relationship with your role as husband.  Much simpler.  Not something
I'm personally interested in.  I don't mind occupying roles and interacting
with other roles for short periods and specific purposes, but I'd rather not
live my life that way, at least not in a role designed by someone else.

<birdy taps her nose and points at Jan simultaneously>
You got it!

I think it's great he knows exactly what he wants in a mate
and will be able to make his expectations known early on.
There are lots of women out there who are hoping for just
such an arrangement.  They deserve each other till death
do they part. ;-)

I'd think it was a better service to my (currently hypothetical) children if
my (also hypothetical) wife and I (luckily, I'm *not* hypothetical) had
interchanging roles.  That way, if one of us dies suddenly, the other has all
the skills to needed to survive and prosper.

This response has been erased.

definately i dont mind the wife cutting the lawn,  or me doing the cooking,
that is all fine and gfood,  but i would prefer to do all the stuf f that a
man does,  which to qualify is what i saw at my home,  my fathers role in his
marriage.   Peoples . . . .
what do you think a womens role is to be ?  as wife i mean

My father's rolwe consisted of drinking one liter
of hard liquor a day, work from 11 a.m. till?? (after visiting
some prostitutes with some business associates) and he never
did anything in the house (he hired lawnmowers and the like)
and besides that he held the opinion that his wife (my
mother) was his goodlooking slave.
I mean this, but put it a little harsh.
I was brought up in this environment, and as
a result vowed I wouldn't bw like that.
So, now I'm like me and like to look at myself as a
rather decent guy.

I'm sorry to hear that about your father, clees.  =(

I think the woman's role as wife is to simply love her husband and children
as best she can.  Same for the man.  Thank you for clarifying, grangers.  I
see your point now.  *You*, personally, would rather take on the role of the
stereotypical father (cutting grass, etc) because that's what you like, but
don't mind if the wife says, "Oh honey...PLEASE let me mow the lawn!  I love
the smell of grass!"  =)

This response has been erased.

Drat, can't type.  I meant to say:

I think the difference between "the woman's role" and "the man's role"
mainly involves things like who carries the baby around before it is born.

And don't forget, it also defines how each parent provides food for the
kid up to a certain point.  >8)

I really have no clue what I'd expect a wife to do.  This is probably
one of the reasons I'm not married.  >8)  I do think that each
couple should figure it out for themselves, and if they can agree,
then that's all that's important.

(an aside: why is it when men care for their own children when the
mother isnt there, it is called 'babysitting'?)

I think I would be bored to distraction by a relationship in which "roles"
were so clearly defined and predictable that they could be discussed outside
of individual daily rythms.

Some days I really want to cook.  Othwr days Ijust want to come home and find
Larry in a wonderfully fragrant kitchen with my nearly ready supper.  Some
days I wouldn't mind calling the plumber or mowing the lawn.  Others I waant
someone else to handle it.  (And that someone is probably larry since he and
I are the adults who live here.)

Child car?  I carried mine for 3/4 of a yer each.  I expected their fathers
to tote them around, change their diapers, cuddle them, read them stories,
teach them cool stuff to know and correct their behavior on an equal footing
with me.  (I was smaller than either Pa, so I traded some diaper duty for some
toting when they were very small--especially while I was pregnant.  

Roles are for actors.  I don't want to live my life onstage.

Hear hear

 I agree with Misti. I don't care who cares for the child, or mows the lawn.
If my wife can get a better job than me, then more power to her. I have no
problem with cooking, cleaning, sewing, or anything domestic. It's work and
needs to be done. Doesn't matter who does it as long as it gets done.

But what tends to happen over time, Jim, is that a clear division of labor
tends to develop into "roles".  So your wife goes out to a challenging
career, saving lives for example, and you stay home and make things nice
and clean.  By year five if you haven't lost respect for yourself your
wife will have.  Also, by then there is enough dependency on each other
for the jobs being done that many folks just tend to hang in there. 
Whoopee. And no thanks. 

"'This is the only way,' we say.  And yet, there
are as many ways as there can be drawn radii from a single center."

                       H.D. Thoreau

Re #17:  Are you saying, Mary, that it is impossible to have respect for
someone who stays home in a traditional "domestic" role?

I don't know that Mary is saying "it's impossible to have respect for someone
who stays home in a traditional "doestic role"."  I think she may be pointing
out that nothing in our society will support you for doing that and it's going
to take a lot of work from both partner not to fall into the "non-paid
domestic workers don't really work" trap.

It bit me.  It's bitten a lot of people I've known.

It's not impossible, Mark.  But I'd not put my self into 
such a relationship.  Too risky.

(Didn't we do this discussion recently?)  (Do we really want
to do it again, so soon?)

Best ways is to both have jobs and do the chores at home.
As I understand is that working mothers do the housekeeping next
to their jobs as well. Makes wonder what emancipation in
the Netherlands actually comes down to. Or, what do ya think
of when there are children she'll tend to them and gives up
het job.
Since choices have to be made, and the difficulty for both
partners to find a secure basis in parttime jobs I think 
being pragmatic about the situation is an inevitability.
Does it really matter who takes care of the house?
Losing respect for someone that tends the housechores is
what I say superficial.
Losing respect for someone that doesn't develop his/her
personality anymore, however is way more easy, but not
nice.
Is it fair to lose respect if a person is not in the position
to escape from some situation?

I see respect a little differently.  You don't respect someone out of
fairness.  Wanting to be fair follows a feeling of respect.  Respect is
*earned* and the characteristics which garner respect vary. 

Also, if a couple works out a division of labor whereby one stays home and
does all things domestic and the other has a career, and love and respect
thrives...  Well, that's wonderful.  Really. 

If I had a daughter who was looking for a relationship where she would be
able to devote herself to domestic duties and not pursue a career, well,
I'd feel concern in the same way as if she'd announced she was a lesbian
or marrying black man.  There is *absolutely nothing wrong* with any of
those situations expect you have additional obstacles to overcome.  A
woman without a career is somewhat handicapped and there will be a loss of
control and power with her choice of becoming a homemaker. I'd hope she'd
be up to meeting the challenge. 

I expect in my eventual marriage, if there is one, we will both work
at challenging jobs and hire out the domestic duties. Life's too short
to clean house.

Hahhaha, that would be nice.

My feelings about respect are somewhat biased.
I am aware that people can lose their
respect for somebody. But, the
initial intent should be to respect whateever one does, and what choices
are made.
What I meant to say is that it sounds (ok?) unfair
if you respect someone, you work out a schedule, and make the
choice that one of the two takes up housekeeping while the other
can develop a thriving career, and the thank the
sacrficing one gets is a loss in respect.
Now, that's unfair!

Best is still to be a dinky couple.

Dunn about the DINK thing, Clees.  The DI sounds sensible, but that NK stuff
pretty extreme for someone with my temperament.  <g>

ref #24: Hear! Hear! And housekeeping services are not very expensive if you
shop around.

Hey. If housekeeping chores are such a waste of time, what does
that say about the people whom you hire to do them?

 I guess you could say that those people are 'really cleaning up'. 

<slinks away from the bad pun>

This response has been erased.

The difference is that each of us has a limited amount of time.  In that time
we have to fit in:

        a) Making a living
        b) Tending to our own and our home's cleanliness
        c) Having some time to ourselves for our family and our friends.

Now, if you can manage to combine any of the two, that's great.  If you can't
it pays to farm out some portion of one of them.  Homemakers have farmed out
the "making a living" part to another member of the family.  People who do
chores "as a family activity" have combined b) and c).  People who hire in
help farm out part of b) thereby providing an opportunity to someone else to
achieve a).

Go that?  There will a pop quiz...

And some homemakers do a) indirectly, you might say, by managing family
resources so that a family can live comfortably within its means.

Yes, exactly!

Yes that's just needed, but I like to be very equal not aggreing that 
the otherone does unseen work, in a marriage you have to communicate 
very much and then you can have a solid marriage. I prefer an even more
deeper and happier relationship.

I agree with this.  I want to add that you also have to expect to 
adapt to each other's needs.  There should definitely be some sort of 
give and take that could not happen if the couple isn't communicating 
with eachother.

Exactly Julie, the first time I recognize you. I don't want again to 
120, but there are relationships that have all those good things, and 
why all, because the intense communication you meet all kind of 
inequalities and by the strong love you can sole them all in love. I 
know by your critical answers you tend to no believing me. But in #35 I 
agree with uou complete.

Exactly Julie, the first time I recognize you. I don't want again refer 
to 120, but there are relationships that have all those good things, 
and why all, because the intense communication you meet all kind of 
inequalities and by the strong love you can solve them all in love. I 
know by your critical answers you tend to no believing me. But in #35 I 
agree with you complete.

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