I participate in some online communities that have an unusually high
percentage of girl geeks.  

This posting from that community seems to sum up quite well the attitude
of quite a few of the younger women.  Women who adamantly deny that they
are feminists.
-----------------------------

I could care less what any dictionary anywhere says it means, the word
feminist does NOT mean someone who wants equal rights for men and women.
Most often those who self identify as feminists want preferential
treatment for women.

Do I think that men and women performing the same job at the same level
should be paid the same? Yes

Do I think that men and women have equally valid ideas and opinions and
should be allowed to run for the same offices and vote for them? Yes

Do I think that there needs to be an equal amount of men and women in
every field? No

Do I think that in order to fill some quota of female employees that
jobs should have easier entry exams for female applicants? No

Do I think that feminism is really just a way to let spoiled women get
more spoiled? Absolutely

There are so many feminists who wont even listen to what you have to say
because they are so full of themselves and their entitlement. Anyone who
speaks out against them is a "neandrathal"(sic) living in the dark ages.

And the sad thing is there are enough sheep in this world that cater to
them and tell them just how special they are thus continuing this trend.

Not everyone who doesn't like Susan B Anthony is ignorant. In fact alot
of us are quite intelligent. If some of you took the time to listen to
what we are saying rather than jumping to insults and burying your heads
in the sand you might just learn something.

20 responses total.

Agree with most of that.  If you judge feminism by many of the most 
popular feminist blogs, you'll find it populated by very angry, 
attention seeking women who seem to like playing the victim and will 
scratch the eyes out of any woman who disagrees with their mantra.  What 
a turn off.

Take Jessica, from Feministing - I get such a kick out of her insisting 
on being taken as more than a sex kitten yet her blog's icon is of, yes, 
a sex kitten and her book cover is of, yes, a naked sex kitten.  Poor 
Jessica.

http://feministing.com/

We need a new movement with a new title. This one is too contaminated to 
be useful to young women today. 

I think your observation of "contamination" is quite relevant. Terms have a
way of being co-opted and assimilated into various memes, true and false, that
dilute original meanings and intent. So what would you suggest as a new
phrase/term?

I dont know. I dont think a new word would change things. 

I think that some young women dont want to identify as feminists because
on some level they have bought into the patriarchal view of "uppity
women." They might well believe that men and women should have equal
rights, which is all a feminist is after all. But they have attached a
lot of baggage to the word. Feminists are ugly. Feminists dont shave.
Feminists hate men, etc. All stereotypes that were repeated to the point
of being a cultural meme. Stereotypes that were repeated by people (both
men and women) who found the ideas and theories of feminism threatening.

resp:1 I think it makes perfect sense to want to be seen as sexy without
being seen as ONLY sexy. I dont get that Jessica doesnt want men to
think she is sexy. I think she wants them to treat her with respect and
to see that she, and every woman, is about more than their sex appeal. I
dont think she is especially whiny. 

Are we reading the same Jessica? ;-)

Yep. The very same one although I do have to admit that I havent been
reading it lately. 

I think that Jessica struggles a bit as an attractive woman because
being so attractive in our culture carries with it a lot of benefits and
she recognizes those benefits intellectually. She knows that giving
women extra status because of their physical looks is wrong but she also
likes getting those benefits. And who wouldnt? But generally I think she
has legitimate complaints. 

Anyways the only time I can remember her being kind of whiny was when
she had lunch with President Clinton and people accused her of being too
attractive so she (or someone else) doctored the photo by putting a
burka over her and some of the women of color in the feminist community
found that offensive. And she got whiny about that. 

Oh and I think there was something with "I Blame The Patriarchy" about
lipstick but that was a while ago. 

From an issue of Oprah's magazine, I came across this:

"For a man, having a job and a family is normal; people feel sorry for
him  if one or the other is missing. For a woman, wanting both a job and
a  family is wanting too much. As the media reminds us frequently, a
'working  mother' will need to juggle and sacrifice... Her husband...
may 'pitch in'  and 'help.' but she's the conductor who orchestrates the
arrangements.  It's still her job to help her husband deal with the
stress-filled  battlefield of work-never mind that she may be mired in
her own."  Ellen  Bravo in 'Taking on the Big Boys: or Why Feminism is
Good for Families,  Business, and the Nation [The Feminist Press at the
City University of New  York]

So stop already.  I mean, are men at fault for what women do?  
If women don't want to "orchestrate" stop "orchestrating".  There
will be a period of adjustment and hurt feeling and some chaos due
the the change but it sure beats going through life feeling bitter.

Women are enablers.  We are a huge part of the problem.  We can fix
it.  But instead we wait for men to change.  (Mary shakes her head.)

That's so true, Mary; we can't wait for men to change. It might be tough
 for some for a period of time, but in the long run, it's definitely
worth  it.

Mary makes a very good point. I'd also point out that it's women (moms) who
are at least partially responsible for creating the next generation of
dysfunctional men and women. This is not say the fathers are not also
responsable, but a mother who keeps wanting the father to change is doing
little to raise her children into healthy adults.

It is difficult to make the decision to sacrifice your own personal
relationships for the greater good of society.  Why should I put my
marriage at risk for no clear benefit to me or my family?  

The 70s women's movement held the incipient promise that your own life
would be better if you belonged to a consciousness-raising group.  And
you had group support to help you through the problems and issues that
were raised when you changed your behavior.

I don't see that kind of face-to-face support for women who want to drop
the managing/organizing family roles.  It's their kids who will pay they
price, and I'm not sure anyone is willing to sacrifice their kids for a
better tomorrow.  

Well, again I want to emphasize that its both men and women who are 
responsible for basicaly "punting" the issue to the next generation. Which 
is why I consider many families to be little more than social devices to 
pass destructive memes from one generation to the next. Take the poison, 
pass it on.

FWIW, I think that a lot of women of my mother's generation have done a
good job of raising sons who are more willing to take on domestic
duties. At least I know a lot of men who contribute quite a lot. 

There have been reports to that effect which, if true, I would certainly
consider a good sign.

I'll agree that a handful of feminists are whiney, but in my experience 
a lot more of the post-feminists (or whatever label one wants to apply
to the sentiments of #0) are both whiney and ignorant.

I'm particularly confused by saying she "doesn't like Susan B. Anthony."
SBA is primarily known for her role in obtaining women's suffrage.  Does
this person mean she thinks women shouldn't be allowed to vote?  Or just
that she thinks SBA dollars look too much like quarters?  I don't get it.

Here's a nice piece in support of feminism:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21364055/

Personally, I think it is kind of telling that such a finding would even
be newsworthy. As it happens, I've never really been in a relationship
with anyone where things werent pretty egalitarian as far as gender was
concerned so I have nothing to compare it to. 

I think it's telling because of what I mentioned in a link I posted in gen:
People PREFER to believe "gossip" to actual facts. What a sorry excuse for
"evolved" beings our human race is.

fuck you bitches,just get your panties off and cook me some SUPPER!

and no,I will NOT help with the dishes.

resp:19 How's that working for you. Anyone cooking you dinner? I have
someone cooking *me* dinner. Nya nya. 

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