Material sources/suppliers. Where can I find.....? 

64 responses total.

Is there a local supplier to thin wall metal tubing in dimensional sizes? 
NOT electrical conduit or plumbing tubing, but tubing of (say)  1.000
inches OD (+/- .001), and wall thickness (say) 24 B.W.G. gage or less. A
catalog source for small quantities (feet) would also be welcome. 
Material can be any metal not easily dented (steel, stainless, bronze,
hard aluminum, etc). 

Try Small Parts Inc. in Florida.  (305) 557-8222, FAX - (800) 423-9009.

I have their catalog. The thinest wall 1.00 inch tubing they have has
0.029 inch walls - 24 B.W.G. is ca. 0.020 inches. 

Have you checked Grainger?  They're on Broadway, at Eisenhower.  If they don't
have something, they might have a source to refer you to.

What does Grainger deal in? I don't recall the name. 

They have a massive catalog of almost everything, but I doubt they'd have
anything a pipe specialist wouldn't have.

Oh, *Grainger*! 

Let's see, if they would not have anything a pipe specialist would not
have, then that means that...they don't have much of anything, except
pipe? 

I found a category of supplier for what I am looking for by doing a web
search on <tubing +aircraft>. One supplier, Superior Tube Company
(http://www.superiortube.com/) lists 1.000" OD stainless tubing with wall
thicknesses from 0.008 to 0.035 - including what I am looking for. I have
sent an inquiry to determine if they sell small quantities (their web page
does say they sell lengths as short as 0.015"...sounds pretty short). 

I need to cut some aperatures out of the side of a piece of such tubing. 
How would anyone suggest doing that cleanly (I know, this is drift... :})?

Ah, thanks for the correction.  ;)
"Graingers has a large catalog of industrial items.  However, they are
unlikely to carry any rare products.  I would advise contacting a pipe
specialist."

(Grainger's is sort of the Meijer of industrial supply)

re: #8...

If you need to drill out hole in both sides of the tube (or even if only one
side, I guess), you might fill the tube with fine sand (to keep it from
collapsing) and drill out a block of wood for a jig that you can fit the tube
through (to keep drill bit from slipping off the curved surface).  If you have
a drill press that would be even better.

You should be able to get clean drill holes of almost any size this way, and
the fine sand is easily removed.

I've never had very good results trying to drill holes in quite then
steel (or even brass or aluminum), probably because I don't have a
controllable enough drill. By hand or by press when the drill flutes
cut through, they grab the metal and pull it onto the drill. One has
to firmly restrain and work and also firmly (no 'play') feed the drill.
I can see filling the tube with something, but I don't think sand would
hold onto the thin metal to prevent the drill from snagging it. One would
have to cast something inside the tube that would bond to and act like
the tube metal itself as the drill penetrated.

I also need a long wide slot in the tube, not just a hole. I am thinking
that grinding it with a "Moto-Tool" or somesuch would be the best.

You could also check 'aircraft spruce and supply'  I don't know the contact,
but my Dad has bought a lot of steel tube from them in various sizes and
lengths for his airplane.  They'll sell short lengths.
Maybe filling the tube with plaster would provide enough support.  Could get
tricky to remove in a long piece.

Believe it or not, they are at http://aircraft-spruce.com/  . I will check
them out (I just did the search...now comes the hard part). Thanks for the
tip. 

Where in the AA area can I get 3/8" rebar cut into 18" lengths (for
survey markers)? Lowe's has some 3/8" x 24" pieces ($0.48 ea - and
too long), and also 3/8" x 48" ($0.89 ea), which *could* be cut,
though all I have to cut them is a hack-saw (or a small saber saw),
but it is apparent they have just been sheared to length for shorter
pieces. So, where else should I inquire?

Jim suggests pounding the rebars an extra 6" into the ground, or borrowing his
bolt cutters but they have a chip in the jaw.  If you can get a crease in it
you can then bend it, work it back and forth a bit and it will snap.
Would 16" (48" divided by 3) also work?  How many pieces do you want?  Jim
says you have to pay him in bushels (of apples).  He has a piece of rebar
somewhere in the garage that might do it.  (We acquired a lot of rebar from
a downtown building project when they discarded it due to it being bent not
quite right.  Walked home with 8' pieces across two bikes, on a Sunday, and
straightened it out for reuse.  Since the earthquake severity around here is
low, and rebar was not required at all (I think) we should be okay.  Besides
there is no basement, just a crawlspace.  Jim just disappeared and presumably
will reappear with rebar.  Let us know how many pieces to cut for you and if
16" will do as well.  What are you surveying?

18" is a compromise between the likely depth of the soil over rock (which
is mostly less than 24") and getting a stable placement. I will probably
need some shorter pieces (like 16"). Yes, I'd cut the 4-footers into 3.
But they don't have enough.

 I need ca. 120 for starters - with a chance for better price. I really
don't want to spend the time bending that many until they break, or even
hacksawing them. Construction companies just snip them off with a power
shear.

I'm surveying a karst field in the UP - doing a fine scale topographic
survey to get a better picture of the paleohydrology. 

Maybe you can rent a cutter?

The builder next door has a manual cutter / bender.  I doubt he would mind
you using it on the site while he's around.  I think you can get rebar
from Clark Supply.  If not, they can tell you where to look.  The builder
may even have some leftover lengths he'd be willing to part with.

Thanks, Klaus. I now have Fendt Bldg Sup and Clark Sup to phone Tuesday.

Fendt sells 3/8" rebar for $0.15/ft and charges $0.50 per cut. Clark
sells it for $0.18/ft, with the first 4 cuts free and then $0.25 per cut
beyond that. I bought 4 20' pieces from Clark and had it cut to make
8 10' pieces (my four free cuts). I then took those to a tool rental
company and rented a 36" bolt cutter, and used that in their parking
lot to cut each 10' piece of rebar into 5 18" pieces, leaving 1 30"
piece. 

It was MUCH harder to cut the rebar than I expected. I don't see how
anyone could cut even a 1/4" piece of hardened steel by hand, with
that size bolt cutter.

An interesting situation arose. They would not *rent* me the bolt
cutter because the AA police have asked that bolt cutters not be
rented. But they let me use it on the premises. When I was done, they
told me they were not allowed to let me use it on the premises because
their insurance does not permit it. They did charge me for this
pseudo-rental, but did not issue a receipt, so that there was no
record of the rental. (Consequently, I have omitted the name of the
tool rental firm in this narrative.)

Life in America in almost the 21st century: anyone can buy a bolt cutter,
but you can't rent one from a tool rental firm that has them, and you have
to use the bolt cutter you can't rent away from the firm's premises
because of the rules of insurance companies.

P.S. Clark made the 4 free cuts with an oxy-acetylene torch, by far the
easiest way.

It can also be cut with a cutting wheel on a grinder.  The device the builder
has that I mentioned is pretty simple an has a 6' lever arm on it.  They cut
5/8" rebar with it.  It takes about 6' of lever arm arc to cut through 1/2"
of rebar.

At a flea market up north I bought a metal cutting blade for a circular saw,
basically a narrow grinding wheel in the form factor ofa 7 1/4" saw blade.
I haven't tried it yet, but at $1 it seemed like a decent deal.

I rented bolt cutters at Superior Rent-All in Houghton a year or so ago, and
they didn't even ask me for ID.  Huh.

This rental place did say the Ann Arbor police had sent them a letter
asking them not to rent bolt cutters. Perhaps it is local option, not
state law. There may be more "detachable" items worth stealing in
AA than in other places.

The rental place said they once had a cut-off tool for rebar, which
was a cut-off wheel of the type Scott and Klaus mention. I think I
have one of those, but for a table saw, and too big for my portable
circular saw. Hmmm..guess I should look through my shop again...

$1 is only a good deal if it doesn't come apart at hight speeds and
do bodily harm.

Yeah, well, that's where good tool practice, intact safety shields, and
general non-use help.  ;)

I calculate 40 cuts x .25 = $10, which I hope was more than the cost of
renting the bolt cutters.  Your time of course is free.  Jim's bolt cutters
are also free for the using but they may be only 2' long.  

Yes, "borrowing" the bolt cutter was one/half of $10. I also learned how
hard it is to cut 3/8 rebar, and what size bolt cutter I would need if I
got my own, and an interesting aspect of police regulations. So I got a
little education too, plus a sore hand. I don't think a 2' bolt cutter
would do 3/8 rebar: the 3' ones I used required all my weight plus some
bouncing on the handle (the other one lying on the ground), though maybe
it was dull.

Jim asks if you tried to cut them all the way through, or just nicked and then
snapped them.  Jim says what you learned is that it would have been worth $5
to have Clark cut these all for you.   But he would also have done it himself
and got the sore hand.  Jim just replaced his right rear brakeline for $2 in
parts.  The brake shop quoted him $25 for a line if they bent it, $60
installed, but when he took it in, they insisted they also had to replace the
front brakes because they were rusty, for a total of $240.  He learned that
brake shops are out to make money.  Jim already had a brake bleeding tool.
The front brakes work fine after driving around the block a few times.  They
had only been used twice this year.  The ratio of do-it-yourself to
pay-to-have-it-done here is about the same (1%) as the cost of a used IBM PS/2
Model 80 to a new one (back when they were still sellable).  

If "the front brakes work fine after driving around the block a few times,"
it doesn't surprise me at all that the brake shop would want to replace them.
What happens if you need to stop before you've made it around the block a few
times?  I wouldn't be so quick to assume it wasn't concern for your safety,
or concern for the safety of those who were in the car's path, or it may have
been advising you of work you need to have done because that's the purpose
of their inspection.  But even if we assume that it was entirely financially
motivated, and had nothing to do with wanting your car to work or you to be
safe, I would be more likely to assume that they were driven by a fear of you
suing them than by being really desperate for $180.

Yeah. Brakes are not the place to skimp.  They're one of the few systems on
a car that's more likely to kill you than to strand you if it fails.  I know
at least one person who does all his own brake work -- not because he needs
to save money, but because he doesn't trust anyone else to do it.

Re #29: I did not think to cut part way and then try to snap them. The
rod is not hardened, so I would expect that even if one cut only part
way, one would still have to bend back and forth a few times. Interesting
question - for next time.

It is not said in #29 what the problem was with the brakes prior to
driving them 'around the block'. I had the same problem with one
of our old cars - they were a little noisy until driven 'around the block'.
I don't think that was a safety problem. 

Jim says he used his 2' bolt cutters on 3/8" rebar but you might have had
trouble with them, which is why he offered to cut the rebar for you.

Concerning the brakes, they did not tell him anything he did not know.
Jim had replaced the rear brake pads himself, and they informed him that these
were okay.  (When he replaced them, he noticed that the brake place that had
done them originally had used the wrong part, and the drum was scored.  He
preferred to do his own brake work rather than take the car to that brake
place and have them fix the problem.)  This time he went to a brake place near
his house.  They told him there was rust on the front brake pads and rotors
and they wanted to replace them both to fix this situation, because they had
rusted unevenly.  Jim could tell from how it handled (which they did not know,
since they did not drive it) that the brakes were safe.  They were not
grabbing, it was just that they had sat for so long in one spot.  Driving
it removed the rust.  He plans to eventually replace the pads.  He is not
advising other people to do what he did.  He put in a lot of time educating
himself about brakes, has always done his own work, and  knew the cause of
the problem in this case.   It was the opinion of the brake shop that driving
it for a few blocks would not fix the problem.  Jim was of a different opinion
and took the time to prove that he was right.  (He also knew the history).

Jim bought one new car in his lifetime.  Before driving it, he took it apart
and put it back together.  'Did you find a lot of mistakes?'  'Are you
kidding?  YES!  Nothing serious, but lots of mistakes.'

The rear brake that had been replaced with the wrong part was causing a lot
of problems, which is why he fixed it.  THere were some little retainer pins
and they had used the wrong length of one of them.  This caused the shoe to
pivot in the wrong direction and cut a groove in the drum, made the brakes
wear unevenly.  A brake shop might not have noticed the cause of this problem
when they replaced the pads again.  Jim trusts his own work.  

My uncle followed someone's advice and replaced his water heater every five
years.  Jim relit his own when it went out, for a few years.  Nothing terrible
happened, he just had no hot water occasionally.  A friend was told to replace
their water heater when it leaked.  Jim talked them through replacing a $4
plastic valve instead.  The professionals sometimes go on statistics.

Anyone who takes the time to learn the skills to become a good shade-tree
mechanic will quickly discover that a lot of automotive service shops do
pretty poor work at times.  It's one thing if you only keep your car for
5 or 6 years but a good shade-tree mechanic will generally keep their car
going a lot longer, for a lot less money, than if it were taken to the
dealer or some corner shop every time there was a problem.  Yes, there
are places and people who do good work but from my experience the majority
is suspect and / or unnecessary.  (I've had my car for 14 years and do a
lot of my own work as well as check over the work I have done.  It's getting
replaced only because of rust from all the salt used to clear snow and ice.)

I've also found that the older and/or rarer your vehicle, the more likely a
shop is to screw it up.  Unless, of course, you can find a shop staffed with
guys that were working as mechanics when the thing was built.

I don't do any of my car work except fluids because that's not what I
want to spend my time doing. But I'm very pleased with the dealer's
repair shop, as its manager seems to be totally honest and helpful.
He now generally scrounges used parts for my 180,000 mile car (also
14 years old - and rusting - he says that is what will probably kill
the car, when the floor panels rust out). 

I've been partially rebuilding a chipper/shredder (lawn/tree waste thingy)
which had been vibrating itself to death.  New gas tank and a couple other
parts which had stripped screw holes, sharpeing and adjusting, etc.

You can buy Briggs & Stratton engine parts (even for older engines) at Maynard
Battery in Ann Arbor.  Took a couple weeks for them to come in.

I'm reassembling with loctite on most (not all) bolts I've had to remove.

The floor is rusted out in two of Jim's Jeeps but there is enough frame left
to just put a piece of stainless steel over the hole.  So far nobody has
purchased the three Jeeps as parts, can't imagine why as they are only 22
years old.

Rane, we both know that Ann Arbor Subaru has one of the best service
facilities in the state!  ;-)  Let's hope the new owner doesn't screw
it up.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss