Something to notice bout haqers. I for one love to break into things im not
supposed to get into, not only systems but diarys,(sisters) buildings, and
stuff of that nature. The thing is that I hate when people do it to me!
Ironic? Yes, very, therfore I belive not in the  whole "HaQeR" philosophy
about free flowing information. Everybody need privacy and that person or
persons will fight to keep it. Don't get me wrong on this, I am not basshing
the haqer community, I just sugggest you rethink the whole reason you are
doing what you do. Haqing has become , trendy, chiqe, and PART of the 20th
century. I consider myself, an outcast of sorts, I do not belive what I do
is evil or emoral, but yet there is a certin excitement one gets when
completing a haq, why? Why a scence of danger? I feel that you know its wrong,
its hurting somebody, but it dosent matter its fun. I really do now like the
type of person who is a "deleter" or a "ViRiI UPeR" Whats teh point? It
totally goes against what the scene standss for. Well I must go, Im dling VB
5 and this system is really lagging me. Thank you people for taking the time
to read this. Love your life, take care of yourself and someone else.(311)
SiNiSTeR         AnTi-SiLeNCe   sinister@thegrid.net

9 responses total.

about your personal life.  Some of us are programmers who are interested in
the field of security and stopping people bent on destroying servers and users
information for no reason.  We hack to secure others systems and our own. Yes,
sometimes exploration is done, but rarely is it invasive of people's personal
information, because in the hacking community it is considered unethical. 
We try to stay informed on loopholes, so they can befixed, but we also try
to find them so that they can be reported.  There are sites that help you with
both finding and alerting you to problems in security.  a couple of these
sites are www.L0pht.com and www.rootshell.com.  If you don't know how to
program you aren't much of a hacker.  You are probably a cracker if all you
do is break into sites and crackers are considered a type of lamer.  If you
don't like what I say alll opinions go to Siddneyy@hotmail.com, because I
don't want you filling my school e-mail box.
 . 

First off Siddney, I feel that you totally missed teh point of my statement,
and I have no idea whre you got the impression I was flaming a grewp. As much
as for you, I feel you are a 38 year old man trying to be young again, and
since haqing is the trendy thing to do these days you choose to do so, I have
more aspects on haqing than you ever will, I probably now more computer
languages than you will ever forget, and I am young enough to be your
grandson, how does it feel that a 17 year old has already become more in life
than you? Secondly, don't try to teach something you partially understand
yourself, I respect your opinions, and your thoughts, but dont make yourself
feel "bigger" on trying to handle something you can't grasp. I also dont
understand why I would flood you mail box after what I had just wrote, read
it again you FuXoR! You should read something over and over again untill you
understand it, thats what my 4th grade english teacher told me, maybe you
should do so. Thank you all and I apologize on both of our behalfs since I
am most likley the most resonalble person.
SiNiSTeR

I would like to issue my apology first to the group for comeing off the wrong
way.  Second I need to apologize to sini5ter for attacking him the way I did.
I didn't mean to be rude, but I was.  You are right I did miss your point.
I went back and read your post again.  I agree with your point that I wouldn't
want people getting into my personal information, but that's not what most
of the hackers I know are interested in.
By the way I'm 19 and a college student working on my Bachelor's in CS.  I
don't know how many languages you know, but I know a few languages.  I also
wasn't trying to teach people.  Just give them a place to go for information,
so that they could better educate themselves.

I just hope this post doesn't come off so rude and authoritative.
  Signed,
        Siddney.

First off Siddney thank you for posting here again, Alost I thank you for
apologizing, you didn't need to do so, I understand that it was all a miss
understanding. I take back all that I said to you. Well I'm in a hurry so see
you later.
SiNiSTeR

First of all let me say greetz to a fellow building hacker... we're a small
but important part of the underground. Secondly, I agree, with what your
saying about loving to break into places but not wanting it to happen to you,
but I don't think it truly goes against the hackers ethic (motto, credo,
whatever). While it doesn't fit in to the whole "free flow of knowledge" part,
it does fit into the bigger picture. Hacking at it's core is about is about
one thing: knowledge. And by wanting to have your information secure that's
what your doing. It forces yoiu to learn. The part that really put's the
hacker's credo to test is if (or when) your information is disturbed... how
you react. If you treat it like what it is... a learning experience, and use
theknowledge of the break-in tto secure your information better, than you are
not contrasting with the hacker ideals but supporting them.

                          That's my two cents.
                                          Tyr
                          flojo@linkonline.net

If you're interested in a book that fits the hacker philosophy, read the 
Cyberpunk 2020 sourcebook 'Rache Bartmoss' Guide To The Net'. Sure, it's
game related, but Rache's comments on the Net in the Cyberpunk universe
could apply in real-world terms.

Hello underground, I am really an aspiring hacker (still got a lot to learn
tho, but recently I have been reading a lot about the ethics, I totally agree
with what your saying about the quest for knowledge and I think that is the
most common simalarity with hackers.  But with respect to intrusion I feel
If you dont irreparably damage anything (real or virtual) that's cool, but
if you do do damage then I feel it is not right, and isn't this hard when you
are dealling with physical buildings. I do skipdive but I have never acually
built up the courage to go any further than that.

I would also like to know what other people think about the difference between
personal and intellectual information.  I feel that personall information
should be left alone, like you should never know another persons passwords
and what they write in their diary.  But intellectual information should be
free for all to read and know without having to paya fee or incriminated.

I also agree about what you said about its not fun when it happens to you,
but it can be a good thing. Say some guy breaks into your box, but doesnt do
anything you see he went in and hopefully you fix it. Now say he didnt break
in and later on some cracker does. He screws up you entire box. I say this
to point out that it can be a good thing and if I lost the entire point of
this conversation, oh well im not getting paid anyway. Later

Hi folks, I have enjoyed reading this little strand of converstaion. I think
that there is a line between personal information and intellectual
information. Collecting personal information (as opposed to usernames, passes
or account (ISP) details) is certainly a breach of good manners, at least in
my book. I believe in the free flow of exploration, but a mature feller knows
where to draw the line.
        I've got to go, we're not meant to have telnet on our net ;)

                        Peace,
                                logger.

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