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I'm a programming student at the community college. I have an anthropology assignment that I'd like to tie in with computers somehow. I'm interested in electronic communities. Could you help me out and answer some questions? How and why did you get involved with GREX? How would you define online culture? Have any of your values or beliefs changed as a result of being a member of GREX? What are some online customs or rules you would pass on to a new member? Is there an online artform, and what is it? Thanks a lot!
41 responses total.
Another question would be: How does online communication differ from other forms of communication?
I'm linking this to our cyberpunk conference, the conference of online culture. Have you read "Virtual Communites" by Howard Renigold? It's about the WELL in California that run picospan the same conferencing system we run here, which was coded by our very own Marcus Watts login mdw. I will answers your survey when I have a little more time.
I think we've had this survey, or ones like it, before.
re: #2 Thanks for the link and the book tip raven, I'll try to pick it up. Im hoping to get a chance to talk to Marcus. I got a book called "A Rhetoric of Electronic Communities" It looks helpful. So far it discusses the ability of people to communicate online during emergancies, etc. and the type of writing style thats evolving.
Well, since logging onto Grex, I've learned quite a bit about Jewish religion and customs thanks to Valerie and Steve Weiss. I've also been able to inquire about Indian customs with the large amount of friendly Indian users (not the ones interested in hotchat). So, yes, I've not so much changed my mind about cultures - I just have an extended viewpoint on some of them now.
>Got involved with Grex I was a participant and Staff member on M-Net, the system Grex span off from. I was primarily involved there for many years after the founding of Grex, but eventually found I was more comfortable here and so shifted here. >How would you define online culture? Just like offline culture except online. I don't see why it needs defining. I just do it. >Have any of your values or beliefs changed? Yes. Lots. I've been in virtual communities for almost 15 years now, talking with lots of people about every subject under the sun. I don't think I have a value or belief that hasn't been colored by this. What kind of lump would be able to talk to people for 15 years and not change? >What are some online customs or rules you would pass on to a new member? Read what others say carefully before replying to it. Try not to assume they are stupid or evil - if what they say is ambiguous, assume that what they mean is what a smart sensible person would mean. There are darn few rules of polite discourse that are different on-line than off-line. Don't use ALL CAPS. I guess that's one. Can't think of any others.
Oops forgot: >Is there an online artform, and what is it? All sorts of writing, from poetry to persuasive writing.
ASCII ART!
Got involved with GREX: In 1994, I belive. A friend of mine from school was using grex, and turned me on to it, and I've been here ever since. Online Culture: As in, 'what sort of art, literature, etc., is online', or as in, 'what sort of customs, people, etc., are online'? The art is just like that offline, for the most part; the way people act isn't always necessarily so. People seem to be more willing to butt into others' conversations, and let others join theirs; more willing to talk to strangers; a bit more inclined towards judging people on the first impression. Have any of my values or beliefs changed?: Yeah, I think so. One of the advantages of a system like grex is that it lets you lurk in discussions between people you wouldn't normally get to listen to, so you find out things you wouldn't otherwise. Online customs or rules: Just because someone you meet online can't run away screaming, punch you in the nose, or recognize you and hold your remarks against you, it still can't hurt to be nice every once in a while. Ditto what janc said about all caps. Also, indicate somehow when you're being sarcastic, so we know you aren't flaming at us. Online art form: Writing, mostly. More and more, though, sice the advent of the web, you see people using it to spread visual art or music that wouldn't normally see the light of day.
Got involved with grex in 93. Online culture is essentially a spinoff of regular culture, only nobody sees each other. New people should be respectful, and if they plan on being popular, somewhat reticent until they get a handle on attitudes and how things work. Every online system is different, and just because people love you on one doens't mean they'll adore you on another. And like Jan said, no caps.
Thanks for the responses. I've noticed that a lot of grexers seem to be from India. Can anyone explain? Im interested in how electronic communications differ from other forms (letters, radio, etc.) and electronic communities. All of these responses are very helpful. Thanks for taking the time. Keep them coming.
Indian users can get access to telnet on their systems, but they mostly cannot have e-mail boxes. Hence, they come here for e-mail, and some try some of the other options.
I was wondering, too. Someone from India with an e-mail address just wanted to chat, about nothing in particular.
Presumably, we landed on an Indian gopher somewhere.
I was looking on the internet for glycosides and medicinal asparagus and ran across the fact that senna is a medicinal herb. What does it do? Did you know that 43% of a tested population can detect the odor of certain metabolic products in the urine after eating asparagus, and that there are about 300 species of asparagus, some of which have anticancer activity due to the presence of certain sugar-type compounds which are not digested by the body but provided food to protective microflora? Other vegetables such as onions and garlic and cabbage and carrots have similar compounds. That is another reason to eat your vegetables, besides the fiber. Now what were we talking about here, I forget.
Senna comes from _Cassia senna L._, and consists of sennosides A and B, which are glucsodes of rhein and chrysophanic acid. It is a cathartic and purgative. I think anyone can detect the odor of the metabolic products from asparagas, but what is interesting is that only some people produce those metabolic products! That 43% figure may apply to the fraction of the population that has that type of metabolism. The odorous compounds are thought to be S-methylthioacrylate and S-methyl 3-(methylthio)thiopropionate.
what amazes me is how small a quantity of asparagus i need to ingest in order to be able to smell those products...
I've heard that I'm an herb, among other things. My login's origin comes from a deceased professional race driver, characterized by many as the best ever. He's brazilian, so the name is portugese.
Well, since we're drifting already . . . Ayrton Senna would probably not get my vote for best Gran Prix driver of all time. he dominated when GP was at its technological peak (unrestricted ground effects, unrestricted eloctronic control of suspension, etc) which has since been limited. Thus, he could best be described as the best driver at mastering the tremendous technology available at the time. For pure driving skill I would have to vote for Fangio, Moss, Clark or even that annoying Ford spokesman, Jackie Stewart. Of course, its the old apples and oranges problem that periodically crops up in all sports . . . .
I suppose you could say I first got involved with Grex on July 19, 1991, since that's when I first logged on. As to why I did this, well, at the time the 'old' M-Net was becoming less and less, um, like home. Grex was easy back then to log in on; there was no internet access yet. Sometimes I was the only user logged on for several hours. Online Culture - A mirror of offline culture with less government. Yes indeedy, my beliefs and values have changed as a result of Grex. I've met several Grexers who have influenced me in both effective and non-effective ways. They've shapped how I view everything from friendship to how to drive around Ann Arbor at 2am. :) Online Customs or Rules I would pass on - 1- In party, etc. remember your hellos and goodbyes. 2- Think, ponder, wait, then think, ponder and wait some more before you make a response to comments. 3- Don't respond for responding's sake. Try to rerspond when you can effectively add to the discussion. 4- Lurk. :) An online artform? hmm.. perhaps learning how to be yourself, and not an exageration?
Senna is among the best, and that's fairly indisputable. He dominated not only the technology, but the people around him. Sure, Mansell and Prost and Piquet got in their championships, but Senna was clearly faster at his best than they ever could be. And he wasn't always at the top of technology; he only enjoyed Mclaren dominance for three or four years. By 1991 Williams already had the superior car. Senna won going away that year, and in 1993 with an abysmal vehicle, gave Prost a run for his money. I could go much further in depth, but I don't want to bore people. Shumacher is destined to join the ranks of the greatest with Fangio, Senna, and Clark, but he still has a number of years left in him. He's doing the same thing with the Ferrari that Senna was doing with the Mclaren in the down years.
Re #15 and #16, odor of urine, Rane's information appears to be 18 years out
of date, but a lot of other people are also out of date:
(Question about what causes the odor in urine after eating asparagus.)
a. The odour which appears in urine after eating asparagus has been
the focus of sensory, genetic and analytical chemical research. A
number of different sulphurous compounds have been implicated, though
one of the most thorough investigations indicates that the effect may
be caused by a cocktail which includes methanethiol, dimethyl
sulphide, dimethyl disulphide, bis(methylthio)methane, dimethyl
sulphoxide and dimethyl sulphone (Xenobiotica, vol 17, no 11, Waring
et al).
Possible precursors in the asparagus may include S-methylmethionine
and asparagusic acid. The difficulty of determining exactly which
compounds are responsible lies in part with the many individual
variations in production or perception of the odour. Several studies
have indicated that production of the odour is a genetically
determined (dominant autosomal) trait, exhibited by 40 to 50 per cent
of adults (Experientia, no 43, Mitchell et al).
However, at least one other report has suggested that all people
produce the odour, but the ability of a minority of people to smell it
is the genetically determined factor (British Medical Journal, vol
281, Lison et al). It may be that different individuals produce a
different array of compounds and also have a differential sense of
smell to these.
D J MELA
Institute of Food Research
Reading, Berkshire
_________________________________________________________________
a. The odour in the urine of asparagus eaters probably comes from a
variety of methyl sulphides, sulphoxides and sulphones. The production
of these substances from asparagusic acid is genetically determined,
an autosomally dominant trait reportedly found in about 40 per cent of
the population. The ability to smell the substances is also
genetically determined and is present in about 10 per cent of people.
Not everyone finds the odour offensive. Juvenal Urbino, in Gabriel
Garcia Marquez's Love in the Time of Cholera, "enjoyed the immediate
pleasure of smelling a secret garden in his urine that had been
purified by lukewarm asparagus".
J K ARONSON
Department of Clinical Pharmacology
University of Oxford
(the following is from another web site)
Why Asparagus Makes Your Pee Stink
by Hannah Holmes
"This is of no practical importance," the urologist tells me. "It
wasn't part of my training. It's something we contemplated over
pizza and beer." When I admit that I have actually timed the
arrival of the distinctive odor in my pee after eating asparagus
(about 15 minutes), the good doctor suggests, facetiously, that my
groundbreaking research might lead to a tenure-track position at a
fine university.
It is a sadly neglected field. But I'm not the first to ask.
In 1891 a scientist named "Nencki" had so very little to do that he
convinced four guys to eat seven kilograms of asparagus (that's
about three and a half pounds each). He collected the pertinent
pee, worked some medieval magic on it, and concluded that the smell
was due to a metabolite called methanethiol.
So there you go. Nencki claimed that as your body metabolizes
asparagus, it produces this smelly chemical, which your
discriminating kidneys see fit to dump into the bladder.
This probably doesn't qualify as red-hot science, but it's warm enough
to spark differing opinions.
In 1975 a chemist from California claimed in Science that gas
chromatography had fingered a different culprit: S-Methyl
Thioesters, to be precise. No methanethiol.
Then there's the 1980 reference in the British Medical Journal that
simply refers to "metabolites." Another asparagus scholar favors
"six sulfur-containing compounds."
I'm voting for methanethiol, partly because the guy who did the gas
chromatography left no forwarding address, and partly because the
methanethiol entry in my aging Merck Index of chemicals is so
interesting.
Methanethiol is composed mostly of sulfur with a splash of
hydrogen, plus some carbon, a brew famous for its effect in rotten
eggs, cabbages and paper mills. Convincing, no? Merck also notes
the asparagus connection and, most intriguing, warns that
methanethiol may be a narcotic in high concentrations.
Now if you're scowling at your screen and muttering, "My pee doesn't
smell like asparagus," first ask yourself if you eat asparagus.
Even if you do but lack the smell, you're still OK. In fact the
fabulously funny book, The ReSearch Guide to Body Fluids (by Paul
Spinrad, Juno Books, N.Y., 1994), says just 22 percent of survey
respondents experience asparagus pee.
Early investigators thought genetics had divided the world into
stinkers and nonstinkers. That was until 1980, when three
researchers had the presence of mind to wave pee from the
nonstinkers under the noses of the stinkers.
Lo and behold, the problem proved to be one not of producing the
stinky pee but of being able to sniff it out.
----
Amazing what lack of concensus there is among researchers - anywhere from
10 to 50 percent of people 'experience' the odor, wonder what population
samples they used to get such different results.
(How many items do we have now with discussions of pee in them, anyway?)
My source was the Merck Index, 11th ed., 1989. The paper cited is dated 1975, so its 23 years "out of date" - but the information I cited essentially agrees with that cited in #22. In fact, it appears to be the work cited above as "1975 a chemist from California", who showed specifically that it was not methyl mercaptan (methyl thiol). My judgement that the uncertainty was more in the smelling than in the smell appears also to have support. There are a lot of factors that appear not to have been controlled in the works cited in #22. How about a Grex poll? Who - that eats asparagas - can detect the odor in their urine within a few hours? Might as well ask, who can or cannot detect it in the odor of others that have eaten asparagas. I and my wife can both detect each other's asparagas aroma.
re 1: how grex? a friend showed me, and guided me through my first steps on the internet. Purely coincidence, I'd say. re 2: online culture? not very different from other ways of communication but without eye-contact or audible contact. Which was funny. a big pro is, that there's lots of time to think of an answer. I guess that most postings around a better thought of than in conversation. re 3: grex has learned me many things, but the main thing is that not all americans are Jerry Springer audience/guests types. That was a revelation. re 4: not to get too personal if one doesn't agree with another, another is that some people don't know how to respect another0s opinion and get personal again without showing any respect. re 5: eh...
If you want to repeat the 1980 study, you would have to save samples of your and your wife's urine (after asparagus) and invite grexers over to sniff it (within a few hours, I would hope, before other odors develop). My theory as to why some studies cite 40-50% smellers and one mentions 22% is that this is autosomal dominant, meaning you only need one gene to detect the odor, but two would probably detect lower concentrations, and about 20% of the population would have the two genes (45% x 45%).
Perhaps asparagas can be used as an explosives taggant.
What's a taggant, Rane?
it is a specific chemical compound which can be used to "tag" or identify an explosive's manufacturer, and even the lot number (by subtle variation), although this does require the manufacturer to maintain records of the taggants and their specific applications.
I see the conversation has drifted a bit... Is this common? Does anyone know when the GREX walks first started, who started them and why? It is interesting and nice that GREX has events like this.
The Grex walks were started by Denise Anderson (login denise) in about 1989, if I remember correctly. I wasn't around though, so I should probably let someone who was answer the question.
(I was around then, but I wasn't around for the walks.) (the Grex walks were originally M-Net walks. from here, someone else should take over the retelling of the history.) =)
(I thought grex didn't start until 1991...)
(if I recall the Grex history correctly, the idea for Grex was formulated by the M-Net walkers at that time. the M-Net walk eventually became the Grexwalk, thus the discrepancy in the dates.)
Boy, it seems like the walks were around somewhat earlier than 1989. I'd guess I first started showing up sometime summer 1987, and it was an M-Net walk. It was even before there was M-Net volleyball. But after the M-Net bicycle rides.
So the walks spawned Grex? I wonder how long the M-Net walks
were going on.
I've picked up some books that look pretty good:
Network Nation by Hiltz and Turoff
Cybersociety by Jones
I do appriciate your help.
The M-Net walks didn't have anything to do with Grex starting. In fact, the people who showed for the walks were, for the most part, happy M-Net users who pretty much stayed out of the politics of M-Net. Thinking about dates, I didn't participate in M-Net walks until maybe 1989. John would know for sure. I'm terrible at placing events with dates.
The M-Net walks started in 1988 or 1989. I first joined them in mid-1989, but they'd already been happening for a while at that point. The idea of founding Grex didn't originate on the walks. But several regular walkers were also Grex founders, so once efforts to get Grex up and running were underway, various informal Grex planning discussions did take place on the walks. After Grex came online in 1991, the walks were billed as joint Grex/M-Net walks for a while. But M-Net folks gradually lost interest in them, and they became the GrexWalks. In addition to the walks, there are/were a number of other more- or-less regular face-to-face events on M-Net and Grex: The M-Net monthly Picofests, the MNBTS of 1985-6 (M-Net Bicycle Touring Society), the M-Net Happy Hours (1986-present, with some periods of inactivity), the M-Net volleyball team in the late 1980's (don't remember its official name), the Coffee House Grexpeditions, The GNO (Grex Night Out) gatherings, and some X-generation Grex thing that Carson can tell you more about.
It was the GenX walk, later called the InBetween walk, which was organized in the conference that started out as the GenX conference and then changed its name to the InBetween conference. It was basically a GrexWalk for teenagers who didn't want to get up at 10 am on a Saturday morning.
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- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss