I have discovered Napster.

Part of me feels it is stealing.

Part of me feels it is great that I can now I have songs when I'd have to 
buy a CD full of songs I hate for the sake of one song. That I can have 
all the 80s flashbacks I can stand, FREE!

Part of me wants a CD burner now REAL badly.

Part of me is very frustrated when I know phrases of songs, but not 
artist or title so I can't find it on Napster.

Discuss.

206 responses total.

Fuck the RIAA.  Napster lives.

Bees - I am in the same boat you are - I partially feel it is stealing, but
also enjoy the convenience of it.  Gary was able to make a Christmas cd of
all Irish songs he grew up on for free - he is a happy man.

It is stealing. 

So what?

        If I allready own the song on an LP, then download it via 
Napster, am I stealing, or just shortcutting the route of LP to 
audio in, to digital format?

Uhh...I am the person Lars Ulrich would love to kill.  Not that I downloaded
any Metalica (meanies) but I have been...bad there.  Plus I havea  CD burner.
My roommate and I have turned all our CD's into MP3's and have been looking
for our vynal and tape stuff there to have.  

The day Napster was supposed to shut down, I like many others connected to
get our last minute songs.  Oh my.  I did 440 in 8 hours.  Still done more
since.  They're all cool and obscure stuff I love.

Long Live Free Music!

(hey bees, if you ahve a song question, ask me.  I might know it, or at least
know someone who does!!)

(I don't want to dampen this discussion.  There's an enormous mp3/Napster
item in the music conference, item #240  ( item:music,240 )
which one might read if one has a lot of time.  I won't link this one 
to music until it has time to acquire its own Agoraflavor.)

Are all of the songs on napster copyrighted or are some of them put 
there by artists hoping someone will download them so they can get some 
recognition? It is stealing if it has a copyright but I can see the 
value of a service like napster for up and coming musicians. 

as i understand it, napster doesn't warehouse any mp3's.  they act as a
clearing house.

Yes it's stealing.  However, I (like so many other people) will argue 
that the Recording Industry has yet to come up with an effective pricing 
scheme.  If they could charge me 2-5 cents per song and then give me the 
song in MP3 format, I'd happily pay for most of the songs I've 
downloaded from Napster (the others I own the CD for already, it's just 
that I haven't found a good ripper program)

There are some songs that I've gotten through Napster that are rather 
hard to get through normal channels.  For example, I collect college 
Marching Band and Drumline songs.  If the college band has put out a CD, 
they usually only distribute on-campus or close to it.  Without Napster, 
I wouldn't be able to get some of this music without some pretty 
expensive travel costs.

ashke... there's some song from the 80s with the line "father, oh 
father, everybody's young and far too serious". Title? Artist? Damn if 
I know. But I MUST have it...

Didn't sleep last night for being awake downloading. Need a nap. But 
must download more. More more more

re #10: There's no "yes, but" about it.

There's a very interesting article on this topic in the September 2000 issue of
The Atlantic. It's very interesting reading.

Do you know that *all* thieves are essentially complaining about a
"pricing scheme"? 

I'll have to find a copy of the Atlantic, then. I figure that having a copy
of someone's CD/vinyl/cassette is okay if *a* they made it so you could hear
a group to see if you like them *b* you then buy the album so as to have a
legit copy or *c* you cannot buy a copy of that album because of out-of-print
issues. I still haven't figured out how to use Napster, and haven'tn really
been interested, since not very many people who frequent the site are going
to have the kinds of music which I'd want to download.

Back in resp:8, slynne asks: "Are all of the songs on napster copyrighted 
 or are some of them put there by artists hoping someone will download 
 them so they can get some recognition?..."  There are thousands upon
thousands of songs available through Napster, and I'm sure that there 
are many there which are offered with the permission of the copyright owner.
If I remember correctly, statistical studies were done as part of the 
Napster suit, and these studies found that a number like 85% of the songs 
available through Napster were copyrighted by the five major music 
companies.  Many more would be under copyright from smaller companies or
foreign companies.  

In resp:9, jerryr states:
 "as i understand it, napster doesn't warehouse any mp3's.  they act as a
  clearing house."   Essentially correct.  Napster operates a directory
service to the files on its users disks, and it distributes the software 
which lets the users search the central directory and then download 
the music files they want from other users' disks.  

This does not help Napster legally, however.
The suit against Napster is based on the concept of "contributory 
copyright infringement."  Napster is accused by the RIAA of helping 
other people make unlawful copies.   

i knew that.  my response was in response to slynne's question - i was
splitting hairs.  there really aren't any songs "on" napster.  i am trying
to uphold the fine tradition established by my hero, bill clinton.  you
remember - it depends on the definition of "is"

Ah, a convert!

convert?

A convert to Bill Clintonism. 

((Much as it pains me to recognize it, our general approval of 
Clinton's presidency is one of the few things jerryr, rcurl and krj
would all admit to agreeing on.  But we digress...))
 
Back to the topic:  a slogan from a recent news article about Napster,
which of course I lost:
  "20 Million Pirates Can't Be Wrong"

<adjusts her eyepatch>  Arrrrrrrr

bill clinton is my personal savior.  has been since he became president.  the
only thing i ever faulted him for was his choice of sluts.  i have been
converted to nothing.  sorry to disappoint.

I have never downloaded anything from napster and I didnt vote for Bill 
Clinton in the last election. 

nice try, but he won anyway.

(ok, i stole that line from the west wing, but it's a great line)

i thought monica was kind of cute

you would

Bill Clinton has always squicked me out. I never could understand how any
woman could think him attractive or how anyone could believe his campaign
promises the second time around. 

  I'm not sure that anyone *did* believe his campaign promises the second
  time around.  The problem is, many people *did* believe Bob Dole would
  do what he said, and they apparently didn't like it..

I am giddly upon seeing the phrase "squicked me out". :)

Does anyone want to talk about Napster?

Here's a topic which came up in party today.  The process of taking a 
CD and turning its tracks into MP3 files is known as "ripping."
(A question for the resident Grammar Bitches, if they are still here:
Do you say, "I'm going to rip a few CDs?"  or "I'm going to rip 
a few MP3's?")   I've always assumed that the derivation of the 
term "ripping" was from the 1960s slang "rip off," meaning to steal,
and this would imply that the people who coined the term had some 
perspective on intellectual property rights.
 
Is "rip off" the correct etymology, or is there another derivation
for "ripping?"

Not sure. I don't think it matters :)

Hypothetically I have a 'cd' of 'Shanghai Noon' that I paid good money
for (about 1.25$US and I paid much more than I should have as I am
'rich') in Hefei, An Wei, PRC.  Its not a DVD, its a VCD
that plays equally well in a DVD as well as the CD of my PC.  The DVD
of the VCD has not been 'released' as it is still playing in the
theatres in the US and has not been released foreign.  In addition to 
the English dialog, and the subtitled mandarin the VCD also has
subtitled fukienese and malay and 'dubbed mandarin' for the english as
options.  My only gripe is that it is not 'letterboxed', but whaddayah
expect for one dollar and two bits.  Now, just between you and me this
flik is not exactly on the top of the list of whats-her-name will allow
me to spend 50 bucks US$ to go see in a US theater on a 'date night'.
(instead we save money and go see 'art' shit.)

Granted this is not 'revenue' that the original studio might have
collected in any of its traditional distribution channels, but is it
really 'stealing'?  Its not even in the same market format the the
studio is gonna release 'legitimate' copies of/in.  Oh, and I don't
even own a DVD. (I don't even have cable.)  As near as I can figure
there is no way that in controlled/traditional distribution methods the
studio has a chance in hell of collecting $ from me, thus it has no
'damages'.  I might even mention to friends/co-workers that it is a
pretty good flik and thus the studio benefits from the 'buzz' in that
filk that I don't dupe copies of the VCD to might actually go pay the
50 bucks for a 'night on the town' or at least view it on TV whenever
it is released if it is.  No foul, no harm?

I read somewhere--I think in the AA News--that someone did a study of how well
recent presidents did keeping their campaign promises. Surprise!  Clinton
topped the list at something like 69%. Reagan was near the bottom; I forget his
score, though.

i'd love to read that.

  re #33:  So your argument is that it's not stealing because you were
  never going to buy it anyway?

  Out of curiosity, how much of that $1.25 do you think went to the studio?

Here's a great example of why Napster should be allowed: I just ordered 
a Captain Tractor cd.  Without Napster, I'd have probably never heard 
any Captain Tractor songs, and I would not be buying the CD.  In this 
case, after stealing the music (actually only one song), I'm paying for 
it.

Thats an argument for why it might be in the best interests of record
companies to tolerate the stealing that goes on on Napster. I am sure they
have considered it but have decided that the costs outweigh the benefits. 

"Mp3 is radio" is one argument I've heard, but the record companies are pretty
much going after anything at all.  The real issue is precendent, not fairness.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss