If you are a non participatant we move to take away your root access.

non participatant as  defined as not logging in at least once a week.

We need to take the keys of the kingdom away from the old guard and 
let some new blood emerge. We need members with a new vision for Grex.
Unix on a Sun was a novel idea in the late 80s and early 90s but now 
anybody can get a Linux or FreeBSD distro and set up a *nix box.
We need to take roo access away from glenda and steve because steve 
has acted like a cowboy by turning off new user. Such independant 
action by a root should be instantly dealt with by the BOD and if they 
refuse to act I say we call for thier resignation. I for one call for 
the resignation of Chuck Martin aka: unicorn for incompetance and the 
shirking of his responsabilities.

126 responses total.

Had newuser not been turned off, it is quite likely that grex itself would
have been:  the attacks on grex were getting out of hand.  Turning off
newuser was (and, right now, is) the only way to keep the vandals from
coming back.

If we fire all the staff what next?
Is there some way to allow new users at least web interface access?

Anyone can read the conferences anonymously, Sindi.  Posting requires logging
in, which requires an account.

I am suggesting finding a way to let new users have accounts but restrict them
to web interface only, so that they cannot vandalize grex (at least not as
easily - it would presumably take longer to litter all the items in agora).
Also perhaps there could be some restriction on the length of a posting by
future users until they have proved themselves sane.

This kind of policy has already been discussed and approved, and is merely
(!) awaiting implementation.

Is anyone actually working on the details?

I don't think preventing shell access is the answer but rather a 
strict validation protocol. And lets remember that all this abuse came 
from one user.

Any solution that requires someone else to do the work is not going to 
go anywhere.  We don't have worker bees anymore.  What we have are users 
in denial.  

We need to migrate Grex somewhere where software and hardware issues are 
offered, for a reasonable fee.  This community does a reasonable job of 
raising money so I think paying for this service won't be a problem, at 
least not in the short run.  A few (non-techie) folks could 
administrate.  But I don't see this as happening because we're a 
democracy and folks would rather see Grex go down than see their pet 
feature eliminated.

We've had a nice run.  I don't consider Grex a failure but maybe we've 
taken this model as far as it can go.

(Thus my comment on disposing of everything at once.)

I *think* Dan did some work on the validation code.  I've not had time to
follow the development, so I don't really know where it stands.

I agree with resp:8 

I disagree with #8. Those who have given up on Grex should try and keep out of
the way if/when there is a revolution in staff.

I'll do that

gid rid of steve as a root and maybe we can persuade mcnally and cross 
to accept a staff position. Maybe spooked would come back as well. In 
fact if we get rid of chuck martin we could cut a deal with cdalten. 
He doesn't hate grex so much as he hates unicorn. He wouldn't be a big 
loss since he's not ever here anyway.

I'd ask for my account to be removed if cdalten becomes a member of
Grex's staff.

Stranger things have happened.

re#14

Why is that? You're a BOD member of a group of reformed trolls aka:
m-net.

Cdalten has shown his level of respect for the users of Grex, and his
level of maturity.  I wouldn't care to be part of a system with someone
like that in charge.

Is there a rule someone has to respect Grex to be part of Arbornet?

Who said anything about putting him in charge? Where did you get that
from?

re resp:18: As usual, I have no idea what, if anything, you meant to
say.  Did you enter your response in the right item?

re resp:19: It looked to me like resp:13 was regarding staff members,
and cdalten was mentioned in that response.

I was just suggesting that we cut a deal with cdalten since most of his
bitterness is directed at something chuck martin did to him. I was
suggesting we eliminate unicorn from staff( considering how he doesn't
log in anyway) not make chad a staff member.

Are you in favor of appeasement in general, or just in this case?

I dont think it would hurt to engage cdalten in a discussion but I dont
particularly think it is a good idea to make staffing decisions based on
the most troublesome users

I have discussed cdalten's behavior toward Grex with cdalten on M-Net. 
I've mainly let him know my perspective, that unicorn has been a
contributor to Grex whereas cdalten has not contributed anything
positive to anyone.  I'd be willing to see cdalten arrested for his
actions, and have told him so.  I'd personally be willing to do whatever
I could to see that happen.

Re 21:  Where do you get the idea that I don't log in?  Just because I'm
not currently particularly active on the bbs doesn't mean I don't log in.
I don't have the time at the moment to read and respond to much because
I have other priorities when I'm online for the time being, but I log in
just about every day.  If there were serious and persistent problems, I
would most likely find out about them unless someone else fixed them
rather quickly between my logins.  And if you think Chad would ever help
grex in any way, you are sadly mistaken.

By the way, Chad only uses me as a scpaegoat when he wants to cause
trouble.  When he gets tired of it, he claims that I decided to "give
it a rest", but when he discovers a new way of attacking, he claims
that I am once again doing something that he refuses to elaborate on
and not giving it a rest, even though I haven't changed what I'm doing
at all, just so he can have an excuse to try out his new attack.  I am
in no way the problem.  Chad is.

 One of the things that some organizations can only learn the hard way
 is that temperament and soundness of judgment are much more important
 qualities in a system administrator than energy or technical brilliance.

 Of the four qualities I've mentioned, however, the only one I'm willing
 to concede to cdalten is energy.  I agree with what I take to be the
 general consensus -- that it would be a very poor idea to involve him in
 the management of Grex.

And if in future we have another troll having issues with another staff
, do we keep on removing staff like that?

re#26

maybe one day you will consider coming back on staff.

re#27

Only if they act without any hint of accountability whatsoever

re resp:25: Thanks for posting, Chuck.  It's unfortunate that you're the
cited target of a criminal, which is what cdalten is.  Rest assured that
there are few who give him any credibility.  You're doing nothing wrong.
 Please hang in there.

"I am in no way the problem.  Chad is."
True in a certain sense. However,for whatever reason chad has singled 
you out and you seem to lack the skill needed to stop him. This has 
resulted in newuser being turned off. I see that as a big problem for 
grex.

Note that unicorn is not the only one lacking the skill:  STeve disabled
newuser because _he_ had no other way of stopping the attacks, either.

and certainly not because that was just the easier way to stop it.

Should have went with freebsd like cross suggested. m-net is 
impervious to his attacks even with our old version

ie: cat < /***/***| grep "*" > /***/*** &  
(modified because some bozo is likely to try it again, if you're in 
the know you know what goes in place of the "*")

It's sad that any user who runs this 15 times can bring grex down for 
a week. That's what happened a few months back when we were kept out 
of the loop. mickeyd ran it 15 times and grex went down like naftee's 
mom.

Perhaps one of our vandals has the expertise to explain the fix?

The fix is to turn off newuser and keep the vandal from the handle.

Anyone who did this could still bring grex down at this point,although I
don't want to run it to prove the point.

Re #25 #27 #31 are bang on! Chuck you need to ignore Lar's rubbish.
Before you signed up, Chad was gnawing on my foot and n8's, and making
an ass of himself with tel floods and what not! Why are we wasting time
even replying to this rubbish?? Let's not mention Chad ever again in
serious discussion! He's like a black hole sucking up peoples time!!

I'm not happy that new-user is turned off but there are no other
practical alternatives besides hosting, and that won't solve abuse
issues! I'd suggest "helpers" with more power to kick idiots off the box
(what's wrong with n8 policing the box??), and I'd like to help (website
updates), but I'd also like to stay anonymous, at least from all but
treasurer (that would exlude cross, steve, remmers, etc)! *hehe* it
would also be fun to watch n8 kicking Chad out when he acts like an ass
*grin* the vast quantities of pleasure i would derive watching chad
froth and fume :)

Larry,

I would like to know why you think that I should have my root access
removed.  I would hate to think that you are shallow enough to think
that just because I am married to STeve...

re#37

"it
would also be fun to watch n8 kicking Chad out when he acts like an ass
*grin* the vast quantities of pleasure i would derive watching chad
froth and fume :)"

I bet you would,considering how he's made an idiot out of you in m-net
general. You lack the skills needed to be given the keys to the kingdom
although it would be fun to watch chad pwn you here on grex when you
tried to boot him.




re#38
It's not that at all. What do you need root access for? If you need it
and participate I don't have a problem with you keeping it. The problem
I have is someone marching in and making a decision that effects
everyone without any sort of accountability.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss