I'm looking for an audio/video receiver.

Back in the mid-80's, I bought a Pioneer monitor.  It had two or three
video inputs, but no tuner.  The tuner was a separate box, which also
accepted input from a laserdisk and a couple of VCRs.  The VCR blocks
included outputs, as well, so I could tape any of the other inputs.

Well, the video control tuner (a VCT 700) is wearing out.  The video signal
doesn't always get through it any more.  For example, even the DVD player
will sometimes black out.  (The monitor was replaced in the mid-90s.)

I'd really like to get a replacement box that includes a 'cable-ready'
television tuner.  (I've not yet been convinced to spend money on a premium
channel that requires decoding.  Not even by the reviews of Six Feet Under.)

I can't set a budget yet, because I don't know what features and
specifications I need.  Except, of course, 100 watts per channel into
8 ohms, at a total harmonic distortion of no more than 0.05%, and a
frequency response range of 20Hz to 20Khz.

Any suggestions of brands, models and stores?

If I have to get a separate tuner, is there an outlet other than the
cable company?

25 responses total.

agora 35 <=> consumer 118

I think what you probably want is a "Home Theatre" reciever.  You get
the TV channels from the VCR tuner.

Yeah...the ones I've seen tend to include an AM/FM radio, an amplifier,
and a Dolby decoder along with the ability to switch several video
inputs to a single video output.  The ability to tune TV channels
doesn't seem to be common, probably because it's assumed you'll have a
VCR or a TV with a built-in tuner for that.

I'd definately suggest getting a receiver that has Dolby Digital or
Dolby Theater System support as well as Dolby Pro Logic.  Most decent
DVD players have digital outputs, either coaxial or optical, and the
difference in sound quality is noticable even on my cheap Aiwa receiver.

Question:  Can I record a DVD to VHS vcr using such while still
retaining the various encodings or do I get a VHS tape with essentially
stereo sound?  I haven't actually tried this but wondered.

I don't know about keeping the encodings on DVD-VHS copying.

I found an article from Home Theater describing three budget-levels: $1,500,
$3,000 and $5,000.  The $1500 system used a Kenwood HTB
(home-theater-in-a-box) that included receiver, sub-woofer and speaker for
$500.  The other two chose two different receivers for $500.  (The $5K system
spent $2K on speakers and another $2K on the television.)

I begin to think I should visit local stores and pick from what they have
inventory.

Kiwanis has lots of used speakers for $50 a pair or less.

hmmm....

re#4
I doubt you'd even be able to record from DVD to VCR because
of the built in copy protection on most newer VCRs.

As far a A/V home theatre systems go...

for budget-to-mid-level brands: I've heard good things about
Denon, Harmon Kardon, Onkyo, Marantz, and Yamaha.

I personally own a cheap Onkyo and like it, although if I had 
to do it all over again, I'd probably go with the comparable
AV 220 from Harmon Kardon.

as far as the >.05% THD...my Onkyo DS-575x is listed as >.08%THD 
and was around $500 when I bought it in early 2001. 


not quite 100W or >.05% THD is a YAMAHA HTR-5540. it is listed as 
$179.88 (75 Watts x 5 channels @ 8 Ohms, 1kHz 0.06% THD Built-in
Dolby Digital Matrix 6.1, Pro Logic II, DTS-ES Matrix 6.1)
( http://www.jandr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product_Id=2980577 )

If money is not a factor:
 
here ( http://absoluteaudiovideo.com/onkyotxds989.html ) is an 
Onkyo TXDS989 listed for $2,198.00 with 130W x 7 @ .05%THD into 
8 ohms.

Two thousand is more than I want to spend. I'd been thinking that a
thousand dollars, maybe a little more, will get me what I want, but it's
beginning to look like I can spend half that.

I will want inputs for my turntable, a cassette player, and a few other
audio-only things.  Except for the phonograph input, those seem to be
standard.

Check out Overture Audio at Main and Madison, S. of Madison.  They have a
clearance room in the basement, and you can probably score something good from
NAD in that range.

Thanks; I finally looked in the yellow pages today.  Overture Audio was one
of the stores I decided to visit. :)

Say hi to Keith for me.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a box that provides TV tuning
functions anymore, since that didn't catch on much.  (Was attempted in
the 80s by some of the big names.)

Basically, plan on using a VCR or DSS box to provide your TV reception,
and switching it through a modern A/V receiver/amp system.  I'm not sure
how many speakers you have, or if you're worried about having the full
THX/DTS/Dolby Digital experience.  If you already had a Dolby Surround
setup, then you might be able to find something that will still utilize
those speakers.  But I'd think that a home theater system, that includes
the speakers, might work well for you.  (You could then use the other
speakers for something else, or sell them.)

Another option to consider, is going to the Sony outlet in Birch Run.
They have some really good deals on reconditioned stuff.  (Sony is the
brand to go with for video components, and their audio stuff is ok.)

re #4
You can't just copy a DVD to a VHS or Beta, you'll have to use the
baseband connections from the back of the DVD player to the VCR.  You
will lose a little definition, plus probably have problems from the
Macrovision copy protection.  However you will still have the full
stereo, which will still be encoded for Dolby Surround.  (Note that
this isn't Dolby Digital, just the analog surround system.)

Re #4: Assuming you can circumvent the Macrovision copy protection, I
think you'd get Dolby surround on the tape if you selected the Dolby Pro
Logic soundtrack on the DVD, and just the two front channels if you
selected Dolby DTS or Dolby Digital.  My reasoning is that Dolby Pro
Logic uses phase differences between the two front channels to encode
the rear channels, while the two digital Dolby systems use actual
seperate audio tracks.  One key difference between the two is that Dolby
Pro Logic's surround channel is mono, while Dolby Digital and DTS have
two rear channels.

Re #8: You should be able to do it for under $1000 if you're not too
picky...especially if you already have a decent set of stereo speakers
you can use for the front two channels.  A center speaker is nice to
have (dialog seems more natural) but not essential, since most receivers
can use "phantom" mode to route this through the two front speakers.  A
subwoofer isn't essential either, but it does add a lot to many films. 
Your rear speakers don't have to be as good quality as the front ones to
get a nice surround effect.  I didn't have a lot of space for rear
speakers so I bought two cheap GE bookshelf speakers, and they did a
decent job once I balanced the levels between them and the front
speakers.  Don't skip that step.  Most receivers have a white nose
generator that will cycle through all the channels while you adjust them
to all have the same volume at your seating position.  I compared the
same film before and after doing that and the surround effect was *much*
more apparent afterwards.

I have two pairs of speakers, but I don't have the space to set up
a surround system right now.  However, I hope to upgrade eventually,
before this receiver wears out.  In the meantime, I'm planning to put
a couple of speakers in a different room, so we can listen to something
else while others are watching television.

I'd come to the conclusion that I'd have to use a cable-splitter to get the
cable signal to both the VCR and the TV.  (The VCT-700 had one built in.)

You shouldn't have to.  Every VCR I've ever had will pass the cable
signal through to the TV.  My VCR passes it through automatically when
it's off, and when it's on I can toggle pass-through mode on and off
with the "VCR/TV" button on the remote (for example, if I want to tape
one show and watch another at the same time.)  I always use the
composite output on my VCR for watching tapes, mostly because the RF
output isn't stereo, so I generally just leave pass-through mode turned on.

just wondering - why 100W outs and >.05% THD? there is a lot of good A/V
equipment out there if you are willing to compromise on the specs...

        I do wish there were VCRs that could handle digital cable signals.

Re #16: 100 watts is a *lot* for a small room, too.  My old tube amp was
rated at 63 watts RMS (not peak -- "peak" wattage ratings are bunk) and
I don't think I ever turned it up past halfway.

Re #17: For that to happen, there'd have to be a set standard for
digital cable signals.  I don't think there is one.

        There isn't, and that'd open the door to digital cable piracy too, I'm
sure.

It's the "power to spare" syndrom.  I very seldom had a reason to turn
the volume up more than third.  But when I do, I don't want to bemoan
the poor sound quality.

As for the distortion, I saw recently that the detection threshold is
around 0.1%; anything less than that is undetectable by the human hear.
Still, if the receiver can do better, and I can afford it, why not?

BTW, I don't know that I mentioned that my current speakers are 6.2 ohms.
100 watts at 8 ohms is more than more than enough for them.  But I can
always replace the speakers.

You'll want to check the specs of any amp you buy.  Some want to see 8
ohms minimum, some are okay down to 4.

If you want to tape DVD's, I reccomend a little gizmo from Sima called 
Video CopyMaster.  This little beauty will bypass copy-protection on 
DVD's (including MacroVision) and tapes.  At the worst, you get a 
little variation of brightness; not enough to quibble about, IMO.  This 
is a totally legal device.  In fact, you can get one at Myers, et al.

Hmm...is Macrovision not covered under the Digital Millennium Copyright
Act because it's analog? :>

Don't forget about speakers.  Most will have a SPL rating of 87dB/meter/watt
while others will less and others more.  It was not uncommon for speakers in
the tube era to be ~100dB/meter/watt.  In these days of lots of power,
efficient speakers are rare.  (Remember, every 3dB increase in SPL requires
doubling the power input.)  SPL=Sound Pressure Level

I was surprised at the low power rating of my Fisher 400.  It was
manufactured about 1964 and uses two 7868 tubes per channel in
push-pull.  It's only rated at 35 watts output.  I found, though, that
this was more than sufficient to fill a room with the speakers I had.

That amp, incidentally, is for sale:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050312549

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