I need to buy one, and possibly two, portable CD players: for use in 
the car, the office, and for wearing around the house.  I had two, but 
one has been misplaced in the house and the other just had a hinge 
break on its lid.  
 
These are both Sony units, 3 and 4 years old, and two things i liked
about them were the illuminated keys (essential for night driving, I 
think) and the digital signal processing feature.  The DSP included 
a compression setting, which was ideal for compressing classical
music's dynamic range for the car environment.
 
The market has changed, and the features I want are generally no longer
available.  The DSP compression feature seems to have completely 
disappeared, and I can only find one Sony -- probably an older model
-- with illuminated keys.
 
I suppose I should be cheerful that the price has dropped about 50% 
since the last time I bought a portable CD player.

53 responses total.

My MiniDisc recorder has a little remote unit, which is a much more common
accessory in Japan than it is in the States.  My CD player (another portable
Sony) has a jack for a similar remote.  The remotes geneally have a little
backlit dispaly, and the controls (while not being lit themselves) are very
easy to operate by feel.

  Have you considered just getting a CD player for the car?  You listen 
  to enough music and drive enough that I think it'd be well worth it,
  especially since prices have gotten pretty reasonable..

My minidisc (also Sony) has a remote, too. I like it. But, I don't know,
most of the CD players I've seen haven't had illuminated keys, and I've 
never checked into the compression feature.

Says Jim: Boy, some people really have problems.

I have thought about an in-dash CD player for the car.  
There are two problems.  The first is that I still dabble in 
cassettes.  The second is that the office parking ramp is the 
Car Stereo Thieves' Shopping Mart, so I don't want to put anything
fancier than a factory stereo in the car.
 
The built-in car stereo CD players don't seem to have the DSP compression
circuit for classical music either, at least not the last time I looked
at a Crutchfield catalog.

I could give Jim my other problem to chuckle over.  At home, our main stereo 
speakers are the old DCM Time Windows, the original model from around 
1980.  They look like cat scratching posts, and our new kitten Tristan
is probably going to finish destroying them.  DCM, originally an Ann 
Arbor company, was bought by another firm in the Southwest in the 
summer of 1999, so I'm skeptical that I'll have any luck in replacing 
these.

And the next other problem: it seems likely the capacitors are shot 
in the 1983-vintage receiver.  I'd talked with Accutronics about 
having the capacitors replaced, but while I was dawdling about it, 
Accutronics -- our favorite electronics repair shop -- went out of 
business.

What _is_ DSP compression?

I was reading this and thinking it over a lot-- I used to subscribe to 
_Sound & Vision_, a magazine that emerged from _Stereo Review_ and 
_Audio Magazine_.

Dynamic range of speakers, reverb, and amplifier specifics were things 
I noted as varying factors among those that listen to different kinds 
of music in the home.  Classical and jazz aficionados generally tend to 
shy away from much bass extension in speakers since it's just out of 
range of acoustical instruments.  There was also a lot of debate over 
amplifiers-- there used to be a lot of vacuum tube purists, especially 
among those listeners.

Now, what I'm curious about is-- how does DSP work?  I wasn't aware 
that the dynamic range of classical music *had* to be compressed to 
work well in the acoustic setting of a car.  Really, most cars have 
superb acoustics compared to the home setting.  The stereotype of the 
car audiophile is of a young male basshead, but really, the arrangement 
is to be appreciated.  Since I don't know DSP, I'm going to guess on 
some things based on typical car acoustics.

I know most factory speakers are mid-range heavy, which I am guessing 
may actually work in *favor* for classical music.  Your implication 
that the dynamic range needs to be compressed rather confuses me, 
unless you're driving in a car that doesn't have high-end speakers, 
which I kinda doubt.  I remember a few Grexers who prefer to lower the 
dynamic high range for most music in the car, but I had always assumed 
that the car was otherwise an ideal acoustical environment.

Forgive me if I sound like a know-it-all-- I don't mean to.  I don't 
know the acoustical setup in your car, and I was curious, because there 
might be alternate ways around it.

My car is an '87 Chevy Nova with a factory radio deck.  That means no 
CD unless I install an FM device to transmit CD output over an FM 
channel, or install a CD player.  I remember void saying that since the 
high end of FM is limited, that effectively makes a natural cutoff as 
well on CD output.  I have treble and bass controls, which I generally 
use pretty liberally since mid-range *is* heavy.  Sometimes I boost the 
treble a little more and lower the bass for the classical stations.  I 
would have even finer control over this if I had a car equalizer, but 
it's not worth it.  I have great deck speakers, but the front ones are 
terrible and poorly acoustically placed (they're in a spot pointing 
down).

I'm guessing DSP is nice because it maximizes what you do have in your 
car for classical music.  I also understand from previous posts that 
theft has been a problem, so any other tweaking might be rather 
expensive.

They got rid of the backup lights?  That's too bad..

The music-to-road-noise ratio in a car is pretty bad.  I've thought about
getting a compressor too.

if it's music-to-road noise, then I might understand.

I know some car audiophiles will put material on the inside hood of a 
car to reduce noise coming from the engine.  This might be a pad, or a 
spray on material that can also be put in other car areas to reduce 
other noises.  Often, they get electrical filters to reduce noise coming 
from more powerful alternators (helping to drive a more powerful 
system).  Radio enthusiasts will use them too for certain types of 
antennas and antenna boosters.

really, though, I want to know *what* exactly a DSP compressor is, and 
where it is needed in comparison to these other things.  There are so 
many factors in working with car acoustics, really-- the design and 
modeling of the car (because good luxury cars will close out external 
noises); placement of speakers (kick panel, deck, door, rear-view mirror 
clamp.. yes, the thing that meets the ceiling.., trunk or alternative 
area-- under seat, spare tire area); and specs of the receiver (tape 
deck, CD player, etc.)

Well, DSP stands for "Digital Signal Processing", which really doesn't mean
that much.  It's a neat way to do various types of signal processing without
the dedicated analog circuits.  Compression just makes the loud parts softer,
which means that you can turn the whole thing up and have the soft parts
louder.

Oh, that sort of compression.  Okay.  That makes sense.

While on the question of how things work, exactly what is magneto-optical
recording (as used on mini-discs)? That is, how does it work and what
aspects are magnetic and what optical?

   ((( Music #227  <--->  Consumer #106.  Thanks, kentn! )))

Magneto-optical uses both magnetism and light to do its recording.  A MiniDisc
reads more or less like a CD, using a laser to look for changes in a
reflective layer.  When recording, the laser is cranked up enough to loosen
things up so that a magnetic field can change the position of the reflective
layer.

Loosen what things up? Also, how does the laser "loosen things up"? By
heat and, if so, by melting something, or exceeding the critical
magnetization temperature, or what?

<shrug>  Search for "Minidisc" on the Web, and you'll find some nice sites.
That's what I did, but I don't remember absolutely everything.  :)

Phase-change technology (part A), is used in PD disks. This relies on
     using the laser's heat to change the phase-change layer of the disk back
     and forth between a crystalline and non-crystalline state, thereby
indicating
     a bit of data. (Although phase-change disks normally are rewritable, this
     approach might be called Light Intensity Modulated overwrite). Data is
     recorded magneto-optically, using both the heat of the laser plus an
     external magnetic field, so direct-overwrite requires modulating both
optic
     and magnetic systems. 

(taken from http://www.minidisc.org   )

Gets more and more interesting. I guess I need to find a technical source
so I can understand the details from the perspective of at least my
profession (chemical engineering). 

I was struck by the fact that the power supply for my daughter's minidisk
recorder is rated at 800 ma, while the one for her Discman is rated at
only 400 ma. It must be that high power laser that required more current
(but, 800 ma?).

Are they the same voltage?

My own MD recorder will last several hours on playback, but less than one hour
recording.  Yup, that laser takes a fair amount of power.

Re #19: the MD wallwart is rated at 5 V 800 ma; the DM at 4.5 V 400 ma.
Given the 'regulation' in wallwarts, that difference in V is 'no difference'.

Oh, and my MD wallwart is 1000mA.

resp:10  I was guessing something like that.

Sorry I never got back to the questions about compression.  Yes, I was 
talking about dynamic range compression, which I find essential for 
listening to classical music, particularly opera, in a car on the 
highway.  Classical music is recorded with a much wider dynamic 
range than is usual for rock or folk music, and I find that I have to 
"gain-ride" constantly to keep the quiet parts out of the noise floor
while not overloading the speakers and my ears on the loud parts.
 
And as I mentioned, such a compression feature was included in my two 
previous portable car CD players, purchased in 1995 and 1996, but now 
I do not think you can find any portable car CD player with this feature.
I looked pretty hard, in about five stores, plus web searches.  
 
Here's another feature which is gone.  The old CD players included 
a "resume" feature so that when you stopped the player, the machine would 
remember where you were on the disk, so you could resume listening
at the correct place when you got back in the car.
That feature is now gone from the new portable players.

Really?  I found that one pretty much essential when I was travelling with
a discman over the summer.  Of course, it helps that the CDs Josh and I were
favoring had an average track length of 20 minutes.  

I think there are still players for sale that have the resume feature. It
seems to have become a "high end" feature, rather than something included on
all models, though.

        I have 'resume' on two Sony portables.  Have not seen it elsewhere.
I would like it on the component CD changer.

A couple years ago I bought a Sony plug-in CD player for my car which, 
I discovered, will not start playing anywhere but track 1.  So every 
time I stop the car and get out, when I get back in and want to start 
the CD again, I have to hit play, wait for the 10-second memory feature 
to load up, listen to the first note of track 1, and _then_ click ahead 
N times for track N-1 which I actually want.

It's a nuisance, but compared to the nuisances of Windows and Apple 
user interfaces (equally dreadful, in my view) which most people seem 
to consider FEATURES that they actually LIKE, it's hardly worth 
complaining about.  At least with the CD player I can get want I want 
with sufficient clicks, which isn't always possible with the mouse.

"what I want", sorry.

Hey, my Sony MiniDisc recorder does the resume bit.  And you can get this
modem (rz-55) for about $250 these days.

  My Pioneer CD player remembers where it left off and resumes at that
  point.  I'd always thought of it as a kind of annoying feature, but I
  suppose if you do a lot of start-and-stop driving it makes sense..

  re #227:  I like the idea of MiniDiscs, but I can't imagine myself
  investing in a portable player for another format with my huge investment
  in CDs.

Minidiscs make the most sense if you do a lot of recording (which
I do of voice lessons and rehearsals to check on my singing
progress) or if you like to make mix tapes in the minidisc format
(which I also do).

Nice thing about using a digital format like MiniDisc is that pitch between
decks is no longer much of an issue.  I bet Leslie likes that feature even
more than I do.  :)

I've been dubbing stuff I'm likely to travel with onto MD for travel purposes.
A CD player just seems too huge and clunky, and I recently got a bunch of
blank MDs at Best Buy for about $2.20 each.

        Well, that price has improved recently.

Actually Best Buy has a number of MD things on sale right now.  You can get
a portable recorder for under $200, and they've got a home stereo deck for
$180 or so (no digital output, so I passed).

I've decided that it's time to stop fighting with the Ford factory 
stereo and get an aftermarket unit.  The AM section got very noisy
two years ago; it was fixed under warranty and is now going again.
The tape section started getting murky from the head drifting out
of alignment last year; I paid to have it fixed, and now it's going 
again.

In party, goose was talking up the virtues of the Aiwa stereos.
Aiwa is the only brand which consistently includeds an auxiliary input
jack in its front panel; I would want this to patch in the portable
CD player I use in the car, as described earlier.

Unfortunately Aiwa is not a very popular brand.  So far I have checked
leads at both Best Buy and Sears, and they carry one or two Aiwa 
stereos but not the entire line, and in particular not the high end.
(You have to go to a high-end unit now to get Dolby B.  See comments 
above about how decent features are being stripped out.)

I'm also not sure I like Aiwa's control logic, so I may drop back
to someone like Sony or Kenwood, and continue to live with the 
cassette adapter, as I have for five years.  It's not intolerable.
 
(As I mentioned before, I still use a lot of cassettes: mix tapes, 
radio timeshifting and tapes of old LPs.  So I don't want to go 
CD-only in the car.)

  Still, why not get a head-unit that can play both cassettes and CDs,
  assuming that one will fit in your dash?  Car CD players are not very
  expensive these days (compared to what they were) and an integrated
  unit is likely to be a better option than a cassette-only player with
  a line in..

Head units capable of playing both CDs and cassettes seem to be 
(1) fairly rare; (2) large, generally requiring a double-DIN opening;
(3) expensive, around $400.  At least that's what I'm finding 
in my cruising around the web.
If you have any specific model suggestions for me to 
look at, let me know.
 
As long as I've got you here, Mike:  who made the portable stereo 
you had in the dining room in your old home?

  The wacky 5 CD changer?  That was a Sharp..

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss