Welcome to Grex's consumer conference!  Feel free to introduce
yourselves and let us know what you are expert and/or interested
in consuming.

The idea for this conference dates back an Agora or two.  Someone wanted
to know the best way to find a dentist, and lots of good dentist-
finding consumer-type information appeared quickly.  A consumer
conference is the logical extension of that original item.  This
conference should be a good forum for finding and reviewing those goods
and services we all need from time to time.  It is not a classified
advertising conference, but rather a place to gather Grex's consumer
wisdom.  What is the best time of year to buy a used car?  How do you
evaluate a lawyer (heh, now, now, jokes belong in the humor cf)?  Is
there any legislation to be concerned with when purchasing goods &
services?  Who handles consumer complaints most efficiently?  Should I
repair this VCR or buy a new one?  How do I dispose of my consumed
goods?  You get the idea...

We are all consumers and very likely have wisdom to share regarding how
to purchase and use what we purchase.  Please share that wisdom.  And
don't be afraid to ask a question or three.

35 responses total.

Okay, I'll introduce myself...  I'm the fw of this cf, and I've
never been a fw before.  I'm a doctoral candidate in the business
school at UM, working on a degree in marketing.  Right now, I'm
studying how people's emotional responses to a product, service, or
buying situation affect how they cope (complain, tell friends, buy
this product again, file a lawsuit, etc.).
 
Does anyone remember which item in the Grexian conferencing universe
discussed the MI Scanner Law?  There may be a couple.  I was thinking
they might be appropriate for linking to this cf.
 
I just bought a used car for $300, so right now I'm really interested
in purchasing auto repair services  ;)

This response has been erased.

Thanks!  (The previous owner took the car to Japanese Auto, a
place my wife swears by; today I took the car in to have the clutch
adjusted.  They did it for free!)

Um, looks like item 105 in agora is the scanner item and it's yours,
popcorn.  I hear it's considered polite to ask the author of the
item for permission to link it...would you mind if I linked that
item to the consumer cf?  Please?

This response has been erased.

Cool!  I'll see if I can get linking to work...

Well, that was *easy*.  Agora item 105, "Supermarket Scanner Law?" is
not linked to consumer item 6.  Thanks, popcorn!

Anyone had good dealings with a Mercury dealership's service dept? I
am getting tired of making appointments over a week in advance at Apollo,
and when I do go, the job isn't fixed completely.

Hello all!  I am a post-baccalaureate student in Dev. Psyc at UF
and am having difficulty finding a reasonable health insurance policy
(isn't that an oxymoron?).  Due to my job and student classification
I am not eligible for ANY medical insurance through the university.
My wife can't get any through her job either.  Can someone please
recommend an independent company and a policy that won't rob me blind!
Until I become a full-time student, or upgrade my job classification,
I just want major medical.  All suggestions are welcome.

Welcome del!  This is a good place to ask, I think.  If there isn't
a health-care and health-insurance item there ought to be.  Would
you mind if I copied your question and concerns into a new item
devoted to this important consumer question?  
  I'm a doctoral student here at U-Michigan, and I know how you feel.
If my wife wasn't working full-time for the U, I wouldn't have any
insurance (well, actually I don't think I've had any since May of
this year, but should be able to tag onto my wife's policy next month).
  I hope the others reading this conference will be able to help you
more than I can.  Anyway, welcome to Grex!

Thanks Kent!  Please feel free to post that question wherever you deem
appropriate.

I'm rather new to the Grex, so maybe I'm not familiar about which section
this goes in, but...whenever I get unsatisfactory service I write a 
letter to the company or store, etc.  So far most family-oriented stores
seem to be receptive.  It's a good way to get freebies as well, when you
have a legit beef.

Yes, that route does often help.  My parents used to routinely complain
about the products and services they purchased that were not satisfactory.
They got all sorts of free stuff (coupons for freebies, mostly).  I have
seen, however, where writing to a company had absolutely no visible
effect, and sometimes a negative effect (nasty-gram back from co.).
Most people won't take the time to write (good or bad experiences).
You can well imagine that for every letter of complaint a company gets,
there are dozens of people that were likewise dissatisfied but said
nothing.  Unfortunately, not all cos. recognized this.
  Anyway, welcome to the consumer cf, luci!  And keep writing those
letters!

Hello, I am a very novice to this system (and in general to Internet World)
but I have two questions to make : 1) HOW can I post an item in this
conference (after bbs and join consumer command) ?
2) WHO is knowing the M.L.M. Networking Company ( or AMWAY ), a Company
that sell home to home with ecologic product ? Here, in Italy, this industry
is in very expansion and I will happy if anyone will me give some information
in merit.
NB. Send me an email-message or respond in this item , please, please give me
an answer to the first point!
Sorry for my bad English !

Welcome to Grex, maxmax. You can respond in items as you have; you
can enter new items with the command    enter    at an Ok: prompt.
You will be prompted for the Item description and title.

Amway? That is a home marketing company based here in Michigan. What
kind of information would you like about them?

Thank you rcurl ! I have create a new item (sorry, if this isn't the
right way) to summarize the answer, if possible [item 19, I think].
What kind of information ?....
This company build his strategy with the research of new vendors,
like a chain or tree of vendors/clients.
Say you if the company is onesty, affidable, i.e. if the products
are good etc. etc. ?
The question is hot, because my girl has been contacted for to be
a vendors of this products.
Can I sleep well ?

maxmax, I don't know if the company you are talking about is the same Amway
as we have here in the USA.  If it is, I would be very careful about getting
involved with that organization.  Sometimes their marketing strategies can
be very confusing especially for inexperienced people. Get a lot more
information before you sign anything.
Where in Italy are you from?  Buono fortuna.

Here is an extract from the Grolier CDROM MultiMedia encyclopedia, on
"multilevel marketing" (copying like this is legal, if the source is
cited): 

Multilevel marketing is a method of retailing products directly to
customers--without intermediary retail stores--through a network of
distributor-salespeople set up in pyramid fashion. Each distributor is
encouraged to recruit and train additional distributors, so that
eventually a particular distributor may be responsible for a number of
subsidiary salespeople and will earn commissions on their sales as well as
on the sales he or she makes.  Such successful companies as Mary Kay
Cosmetics (see ASH, MARY KAY) and Amway, which primarily distributes
household items, have developed large sales forces based on this
multilevel pattern;  increasingly, firms that sell directly to consumers
are instituting multilevel operations. Multilevel marketing companies must
be distinguished, however, from pyramid schemes or businesses, whose main
object is to recruit new members rather than sell products. In a typical
pyramid scheme, new members must pay a large fee to join or to purchase a
stock of the product to be sold. Very often the product proves unsalable,
but the pyramid's promoters will refuse to repurchase it--unlike the
multilevel company, which will buy back unsold merchandise (although very
often at a discount from the original price). Members in pyramid schemes
may receive commissions for recruiting more people, but only those at the
top of the pyramid ultimately profit because the supply of potential
participants is limited. 

Bibliography:  Berkowitz, Eric, et al., Marketing, 2d ed. (1989).

(I think that here, let *both* the buyer and the seller beware.)

Very well done, Rane.

Thank you, rcurl, headdoc, kentn !
This evening (here in Italy, 6 hours next to you) I will go in a
meeting of this promoters. I am almost mistrustful in merit but
I want see their *art of seduction* . Of rest, my girl is not a 
novice even if I am not entire in agree with her.
I will say You in the next days, after the weekend.
Tomorrow I will go to FIRENZE, for a visit to the City (it's very fine
and interesting, FIRENZE)
N.B. I live in BOLOGNA, in the north-Italy (for headdoc).
Ciao a tutti !

Firenze (Florence) was one of the cities I visited in Italy that I
found most interesting - already being a history buff helped. Also, I
had some most unusual but not unpleasant experiences there. 

  ..."some *most* unusual but not *unpleasant* experiences there" ??
What ? Can you tell me ?
Florance is a very *civic* city, I am afraid of that. If you have visited
Napoli, perhaps it was possible of these le 

perhaps it was possible that this thing was succeeded, at least.
Florance is visited by milion and milion of  of visitors, the people
is most cordial even if lately the most problem is a few of razzism.
It is strange for us (born in the 1960), lived in a democratic state,
think in term of razzism, but little groups od fanatic (skinheads )
spread terror against the people not egual to their.
Bye, and sorry for my bad english!

Your English is much better than my Italian. Well, *one* unusual event
that happened in Florence was that I met on the street the man with
whom I had roomed on Der Bremen (ship) when crossing the Atlantic, not
knowing he was going to Italy, and he gave me then the name and address
of his aunt in Czechoslovakia, who I visited later that summer.....

There are several companies that offer major medical and don't rip you off
too badly.  To locate one, look  under insurance for the self-employed.  You
can also call small local businesses to find out the name s of these
companies.  They usually send a rep out to see you and go over all the
information.  They do try to pressure you, so know what you want before the
rep comes to see you.  I used to know a person that worked for two different
ones, but can't think of the names of them at the moment.  Sorry.

Following Rane's lead elsewhere, and my own understanding of the
legality of such, I've killed item 100, which involved a pyramid
scheme.  If you want to discuss such schemes, feel free to enter
an item, but don't try to involve the people here in them.  Thanks.

Kent, how does one kill an item?  The same thing has been showing up in lots
of confs, not yet in diy where I am fw.  I want to be prepared.  I emailed
the perpetrator that he was annoying a lot of people and to please stop.

Type "help kill" at the Ok: prompt.

I'm a consumer.  From Austin Texas area.

I buy lots of tech gear, computers, cameras, you name it.

Not to my wifes delight though.

Hi Paul.  Not much tends to happen in these topic-specific conferences.  Come
say hello in Agora.  What kinds of cameras do you have?

I have a Sony F707 that I really like.  Except for the slow shutter release.

And a couple of Sony PC100 video cams.

And a new JVC GZ-MC500U which is an all in one video and high megapixel
camera.  It's a bid odd.

Paul - Sindi did not tell you that she's adamanty opposed to the 
American consumer culture.  (E.g., why buy a digital camera when you 
can find a Kodak Brownie in someone's trash?)

Klg is our local jerk.  Digital cameras are much better for the environment
than film cameras and we actually bought two (and were given two others that
were fixable).  I got (from the curb) a power adaptor for mine so don't need
to use batteries with it except outdoors.  Used digital cameras are cheap on
ebay if you are not after the most recent models (which produce files much
too large for email or web use without broadband).  After about 5 years they
cost 1/10 the new price.  Mine both work with DOS and serial cable (or linux
and serial cable, and one has a memory card that works with USB reader).

(I kind of like sindi, despite her idiocy, too.  She likes free speech, 
except when it's used to express ideas different than her's.)

It is pretty rare for Sindi to take anyone's ideas to task; she primarily just
stands up for hers.

As does Rane.

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