While eliminating multiple recordings of some compositions from my LP
collection, I realized that certain record companies tend to have better
quality recordings than others (although of course the musicians have a lot
to do with it).  I have the opportunity to sample the Kiwanis LP collection
and rather than listening to five different versions of Dvorak's New World
Symphony, would like other people's opinions on which companies are likely
to have produced the best recordings.  From my own collection I can list:
Archiv, Deutsche Grammophon, Supraphon (Czech), Nonesuch, London, Turnabout
Vox, Phillips, Angel, Seraphim, Columbia, Capitol, RCA Victor.

74 responses total.

My recollection is that during the 1950s the London FFRR 
and FFSS LPs had excellent sound quality.  Phillips and
Angel released some superb-sounding LPs in the 1960s and 
1970s.  Columbia seemed awfully variable throughout the
enire period, but they had some first-rate artists recording
for them.  Same with RCA Victor.  Later on, Telarc and the
other digital LP makers came along.

OTOH, as you're sampling *used* disks you'd be very well advised to listen
for scratches, overplaying, etc.  The best recording, poorly treated, will
be no bargain.

I discovered that problem with an otherwise very nice recording of Brahms
Variations on a Theme by Haydn, Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Symphony
Orchestra.  It was played with a lot more feeling than the Utrecht Symphony
Orchestra under Paul Hupperts (Musical Masterworks Society) but was full of
popping sounds.  You can see the scratches.  FOr some reason people usually
seem to put the paper jackets in the records with the open side facing out
so they also collect dust.
        I got the same impression of Columbia and RCA Victor.

How would I go about choosing between Brahms Symphony #3 on Deutsche Grammophon
with Herbert von Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic, and Columbia Masterworks
with Bruno Walter and the Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra of New York?
Both in good condition.  Or Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 by Columbia Masterworks
(which seems to be their high-end series) with Leonard Bernstein and the NY
Philharmonic or Seraphim with Erich Leinsdorf and the LA Philharmonic?  What
are the better orchestras and conductors?  (Pre-CD)

Keep both of the Brahmses if you can.  If I had to pick only one
of them, it would be Karajan, but you should listen to them both
and decide for yourself.  The Bernstein Rachmaninoff has to be
better than the Leinsdorf, however.

I kept both Brahms because they had different things on the other side, but
am now down to one each Academic Festival Overture, Hungarian Dances, and
Variations on Haydn (down from 2 or 3).  Both # 3s also sounded good so I was
glad to have an excuse not to have to choose one.  The Hungarian Dances were
just not the same on piano as full orchestra, that was an easy choice.
Are there any record companies that should be avoided?

Okay, how do I choose between Mendelssohn's Concerto in E Minor for Violin
and Orchestra:  Netherlands Philharmonic, Louis Kaufman violinist and Otto
Ackerman conductor (Musical Masterworks Society) and Royal Philharmonic
Orchestra, Sir Thomas Beecham conducting, Jascha Heifetz (RCA Victor)?  I
actually liked the Netherlands Philharmonic better but the record is full of
popping sounds and I don't see any scratches or dirt.  Can records be cleaned
wtih some common household chemical?  (Dish detergent, isopropyl alcohol) 
I have been wiping them with a clean handkerchief.  Is this bad?

There used to be various cleaning solutions and apparatus
available for vinyl but I never see it anymore.  You are
probably safe using some mild soap and lukewarm water,
as long as you thoroughly rinse and dry the LP.  Be gentle!

The performance and recording you like the sound of best
is the one you should keep.  Beecham/Heifetz would have
been my choice, not having heard either one, but it could very
well be that Kaufman/Ackerman is better.

In cleaning LPs it is very easy to add scratches by rubbing the dust/dirt
across the surface, or to drive grunge down into the grooves.

I washed off the Mendelssohn with the popping sounds in dilute sodium
alphabenzene sulfonate (our one-ingredient dishwashing detergent) and rinsed
it, wiping lightly with my hands, and propped it at an angle to dry.  It
looked dry after ten minutes but took an hour to dry the water out of the
grooves.  This eliminated most of the popping sounds.  I have decided to keep
both versions of Mendelssohn concerto and moved some records to the top of
my other bookcase with a couple heavy books at one end.
        I definitely preferred Bernstein's Rachmaninoff.
        How would you choose between Beethoven's 7th Symphony by George Szell
and the Cleveland Orchestra, Columbia Odyssey, or Andre Previn Conducting
London Symphony, Angel record (manuf. by Capitol Records, EMI Records
Limited).   I did not know Angel = Capitol = EMI, did one buy out the others?
The Columbia Odyssey version was previously released on Epic BC 1066 and
Columbia M7X 30281 - is Epic another branch of Columbia?  How many different
record companies were around in their heyday and how many now?
        Now the Beecham Mendelssohn has popping sounds.  Back to the sink.
        What does a worn needle look like?  (Diamond).

By the time Previn started conducting I already
had recordings of most of the stuff he recorded,
so I made his acquaintance on just an LP or two.
I don't even know what his reputation is as a
conductor.  (To me, he'll always be the pianist
from the '50s jazz group Shelley Mann and His 
Friends.)  

Szell is another blank spot to me.  Sorry.  
I don't have much of what he recorded and I'm
not crazy about what I do ahve.  He did a so-so
recording of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra.  My
favorite Beethoven's 7th is Toscanini conducting
the NBC symphony orchestra.  The 7th used to be
my single favorite piece of music.

Many record shops used to have a microscope for
examining styli.  You probably won't see that
anymore.  What I would do is start with a new
stylus and follow the manufacturer's guidelines
for hours of play.  

Air-drying is probably okay as long as you rinse
the LP obsessively before you set it out.  The
manufacturers used to recommend wiping dry with a
soft cloth, always in the direction of the grooves,
not across them.  That might be better, as it would
lessen the amount of deposits in the grooves of
whatever minerals you have in your water.

We have magnifying glasses but don't know what to look for.
Sounds like the performers are what to look for, not the record company, but
I get the impression some companies record better performers.
I kept the Szell as it was scratch free, Previn was not.  That is what I get
for acquiring most of my collection from the curb after yard sales.
I will wipe with a clean hanky, I had noticed a pattern left by the drying
and we do have calcium in the water (added at the purification plant).
Next choice is Vivaldi's Four Seasons:  Argo/Academy of St. Martin/Marriner
or Vanguard/I Solisti di Zagreb/Antonio Janigro.

Those are both excellent.  Sounds like you picked up
some nice stuff on the curb there, keesan.

Re stylus wear, I remember seeing very high power magnifications
of new and used styli years ago.  The new ones had rounded tips 
and the ones that needed replacing had wedge-shaped tips.  You
might be able to discern the difference in a big enough magifier.
A badly worn stylus can tear your LPs up pretty good.  Also, the
weight of the tone arm has to be adjusted to the lightest weight that
can track smoothly without skipping.  This will make your styli and
your LPs last longer.  (I have LPs that are pushing 50.)  The actual
diamond part of the stylus is at the very tip and is the size of a grain
of sand.  You need to inspect it from several angles at very high
magnification.

Sindi, use distilled water.

Incidentally (re #12), no net calcium is added to the water at
the treatment plant. Lime (Ca(OH)2) is used to precipitate
temporary hardness (Ca(HCO3)2), but the result is that there is
*much* less calcium in the water after treatment than before. There
is still a little.

Thank you Rane.  I will not worry about the water, but thanks Dave.  Michael,
we spent two hours putting the best parts of two Dual turntables together for
one of our volunteers, and they decided that the wedge-shaped needle was
better because the rounded-tip one tended to skate and there must have been
something wrong with it.  I will tell Jim.  But I would think that the needle
is more likely to get blunted than sharpened, considering that the tip is what
contacts the vinyl.  We really ought to know about these things if we sell
turntables.  Jim has figured out how to weigh and adjust the arm.  Would any
of you like to come in to Kiwanis and explain to us how to tell good from bad
turntables and needles?   Hm, does the tip contact the vinyl or is it the
sides?  How does this work?
        Five versions of Dvorak's New World Symphony at Kiwanis.  I take
records down in the cellar to listen to while we work there, as there is poor
radio reception when your ceiling is at ground level.  Seems like one record
out of twenty at Kiwanis is Tijuana Brass.  We had 40 minutes of rousing
marches around 2 am this morning, while finishing a couple computers.
        What is the story about elliptical versus rounded needles?

I am so over my head on that.  I've always believed the
wedge-shaped needles were the worn-out ones.

The tip contacts and rides on the sides of the groove, so that the
groove can wiggle it back and forth, which is what stresses the
crystal and produces the piezoelectric signal that goes to the
amplifier. The needles therefore wear on their wides, making them
wedge shaped. This creates some sharp edges, which then begin shaving
vinyl off the grooves. 

If I ran the world, I would separate out the LP tech-talk discussion from 
the music & label discussion...  :)
 
If I were Sindi, I would go buy a VPI 16.5 record washing machine; I think 
they are still made for the audiophile market.  Best record cleaner I 
ever saw; the only problem was that it cost about $500, so I don't think
it fits into Sindi's lifestyle.  I was about ready to buy one when the 
compact disc came along and made the idea of a record washing machine 
seem kind of irrelevant.  Hi Fi Buys used to have one of these machines
and for a buck they would wash any LP you brought in, and I revived quite 
a few dirty LPs this way; but Hi Fi Buys has been out of business for 
years.
 
What I would recommend for the routine pre-play cleaning of LPs is a 
carbon fiber brush.  I just saw an LP dealer on the net who stocked them
as of a few weeks ago... I wonder where I bookmarked that page.
I will look for it.  In the meantime, take a look at 
http://www.nviclassical.com for all sorts of LP accessories, 
including stocks of an out-of-print book on how to set up turntables.
 
I believe the old handheld Discwasher brushes are still in production.
I used those for many years and still find mine useful for attacking 
a really messy record, because you can use more force with it than you 
can with the carbon fiber brush.
 
Stylus geometry is kind of complicated, and I'm probably going to 
mess this up.  In the discussions above, the word "wedge" is being 
used to describe two different things.  One is a stylus which has 
been designed to have a non-spherical shape, and the other is a 
stylus which was once spherical but has been worn into a "wedge" 
shape.
 
The stylii which were designed to be non-spherical were usually called
"elliptical" or "hyperelliptical."   The spherical stylus would only 
touch the walls of the record groove at two small points as the stylus
floated along in the groove; the elliptical designs were shaped to 
increase the area of contact between stylus and groove, thus minimizing 
wear.   Stylus design was pretty much a function of price; my vague 
memory was that $20-$30 would get a spherical stylus, $50-$100 an 
elliptical, and $150 and up would be a hyperelliptical.

The rule of thumb was that a diamond phono stylus should be replaced 
after 1000 hours of use.  In the LP era, I would buy a new stylus every 
12-18 months.  Usually I could hear the stylus wear in the music as a
sort of harsh distortion in the high frequencies. 

Found it!  The Pickering carbon fiber record cleaning brush, CFB-80, 
is offered for $10 from  http://www.garage-a-records.com
 
I have never shopped with them, but I'd gamble $10 to get one of 
those Pickering brushes.  I have used one for most of a decade and 
I recommend it.  Garage-a-records also lists a "Hunt" brand carbon 
fiber brush which costs $25 and looks interesting.

Another good investment would be the Discwasher SC-2 stylus brush.

Thanks for all your suggestions, but I will stick with water and detergent
for a while, on my records, which cost me no more than 50 cents each.  Blowing
the dust off first also helps.  We sold the Dual turntable with the round
needle in it with a clean conscience.  Running out of working phonos, the last
one someone wanted to buy, the diamond was no longer in it, they get knocked
off easily.

Still sorting through duplicates.  I chose in one case on the basis of
nationality (Russian Melodiya record company), in another case Mendelssohn's
Songs Without Words with two extra songs on it compared to the one I did not
keep, and then there was a piano concerto played by (a) Van Cliburn (no
mention of which orchestra) and (b) Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia
Symphony.  On the first record you could hear the piano and little else.

More choices:
Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto in E Major, 'Heifetz plays...Sir Thomas Beecham
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra;  Ruggiero Ricci violin, Mathhias Kuntszch
conductor, Philharmonica Hungarica Reinhard Peters Conductor;  Louis Kaufman
violinist Otto Ackermann conductor Netherlands Philharmonic Orchestra.
They all sound wonderful but I am leaning towards the Heifetz

Dvorak 16 Slavonic Dances:  Antal Dorati Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra; 
Dvorak Slovanske Tance Vaclav Neumann Czech Philharmonic Orchestra

Rossini Overtures:  Czech Philharmonic Gaetono Delogu
Six Favorite Overtures, E. G. Asensio and the English Chamber Orchestra

Faure Requiem:  Paris Philharmonic Chorus and Orchestra, Rene Leibowitz
Faure Requiem:  Phillippe Caillard Chorale, The National Orchestra of the
Monte Carlo Opera, Louis Fremaux
Faure Requiem:  Jocelyn Chamonin and George Abdoun soloists, Chorale des
Jeunesses Musicales de France, Orchestre des Concerts Colone, Louis Martini
(I could have made the choice easier by getting a tape of the performance that
I was once in).  I have not heard of any of the above orchestra, have you?

Oops, one more Mendelssohn:  Philharmonia Orchestra Leon Barzin.  Which two
would you keep out of the four?

Handel Fireworks and Water Music:  English Chamber Orchestra Johannes Somary,
or Eugene Ormandy and Philadelphia Orchestra or Vienna State Opera Orchestra

Beethoven's Ninth Symphony: Bruno Walter and the New York Philharmonic or
Netherlands Philharmonic under Walter Goehr.

This assumes they are all relatively unscratched.
Eugene Ormandy seems to do an excellent job conducting anything.

My non-expert suggestions:

Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto: Heifetz-Beecham.

Dvorak Slavonic Dances: Neumann-Czech Philharmonic.

Rossini Overtures:  Czech Philharmonic-Delogu.

Faure Requiem:  Paris Philharmonic-Liebowitz.

Handel Fireworks and Water Music:  Ormandy/Philadelphia.

Beethoven's Ninth: keep both.

Thanks, I will listen to them all and try to hear what it is you prefer.  
Which other orchestras and conductors are as consistenly good as Ormandy and
Philadelphia?  I also liked Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, at least
their Vivaldi Four Seasons, an outstanding winner.

I did like the Paris version of Faure best, but in order to fit it onto a 10"
record they omitted a few lines here and there (any line that was repeated
in the original was left out in their performance).  Do modern composers time
their compositions to fit in 72 minutes (formerly 45 minutes)?
The Handel records were not quite the same either - Ormandy did abridged
versions of both Water and Fireworks music, then I had one complete Water
Music and one complete Fireworks with abridged Water.  May keep them all.
The Musical Heritage Society performances seems to be technically correct but
lacking in interpretation.  The Musical Masterpiece Society (Netherlands and
Paris Symphonies, etc.), though on 10" records and therefore at times a bit
abridged, are uniformly good, in my opinion.

The Faure Requiem Monte Carlo version (at least, if this is the one that
won the Grand Prix du Disque) is the first one I ever heard and I've never
liked another performance as well.  Especially the boy soprano.  If you 
decide against that one, may I have it?

THere was something about a Grand Prix, you are welcome to this version.
I am currently comparing three versions of Beethoven's Ninth.  I recall it
being very hard on the second altos (a long very high note that I could not
reach at all).  First version is scratchy.  Basic Library of the World's
Greatest Music (with yet another Barber of Seville on the reverse side).

I've heard it said that many composers since 1950
have turned out 20- or 25-minute pieces that could
fit on one side of an LP.  

I just read that CDs were lengthened from 60 to 74 minutes because LPs are
37 minutes long per side.   Did someone invent a longer LP by putting the
grooves closer together?  (I think this is what happened when going from 78s
to 33s).  Or is this just an error?

Certainly some LPs gained length by tighter grooving.  I think it was a
change, but I'm not sure of that.

On CD length:  The story was always reported that Akio Morita, the chairman
of Sony, decreed that the CD had to be long enough to record Beethoven's 
9th Symphony on one disc.  (Sony and Philips were the co-developers of
today's CD format.)  The original CD standard called for a 72 minute 
length.  Some releases started pushing that limit up by packing the 
tracks in a teensy bit more tightly and getting closer to the rim of 
the disc; when 80-minute discs came out, we found that lots of players
would not make it through to the end of these discs.  So the upper boundary
is now 78 minutes and change.
 
LPs:  Yes, the grooves (and stylii) got much smaller with the transition
from 78 to LP; that's why the LPs were called "microgroove" recordings 
for a while.  37 minutes may be a theoretical possibility for the length 
of one LP side, but it was not a market practicality.  In LPs, there would 
always be a tradeoff between how loud (=how wide) the grooves were cut, 
and how much time the LP could hold.  I rarely saw LPs packing in more than 
25 minutes per side and I doubt that I ever saw an LP with 30 minutes
on a side.  I suspect some exist at that length, but they were very 
rare. 
 
(Oh, it's important how loud/wide the grooves are cut because the 
signal needs to climb out of the vinyl surface noise with the LP.)

<nods>  All the CDs I've seen that even come close to 70 minutes, the LP
version is on two records.  

At the library, I took a look at which companies are now putting out classical
CDs:  Phillips, London, Deutsche Grammophon, Nonesuch, RCA Victor and CBS
(Columbia) are the only ones that I recognized.  Are Angel/Seraphim,
Westminster, MHS and other record companies still in existence?  Did they
merge or get bought out?  Are there now fewer and larger companies or perhaps
more and smaller, now that anyone can make a CD?
Vox/Turnabout still around?  Mercury?  Oryx?  

Some of those companies are, I think, gone, and new ones have arisen in 
their place.  Others are there under different guise.  For instance, 
what once was Columbia was bought by Sony, which is now using the Sony 
name on some releases, and CBS on others, I think.  Angel was only the 
American imprint of EMI, which is still around.

In general, record labels are merging into a few big groups, rather like car
companies did a while back, although not to quite such an extreme degree. 
I don't know much about classical labels, but I'd assume they're following
this general trend.

I fairly recently (I think) bought one or more CDs labeled as MHS.  I bought
them through BMG, so they were also labeled as BMG; BMG always (or almost
always) does that.

This is off the top of my head, with some references to the web.
There are now five multinational conglomerates who control 85% or 
more of all recorded music sales  (not just classical):
In approximate order of size, they are:

   Universal  (formed last year by merging MCA and Polygram)
   Time/Warner
   Sony       (historically, Columbia in the US)
   BMG        (historically, RCA in the US)
   EMI        (historically, Capitol for pop and Angel for classical in US)
 
Of the labels keesan mentions:
   Polygram controlled the Philips, London and Deutsche Gramophon 
       labels, so they are now part of Universal Music Group.
       I think all three labels are still active, though I'm not
       sure about Philips.   Mercury is also a part of the Universal
       conglomerate; Mercury dropped out of the business of 
       selling new recordings many years ago, so today the
       Mercury name is only used for their old reissues.
   Nonesuch is still an active division of Time/Warner.
   The "CBS Masterworks" label was retired when Sony bought Columbia.
       New issues are under the Sony name, and historical issues are 
       usually under Columbia.
   The RCA name is used for many BMG classical releases, both reissues
       and new items. 
   Angel and Seraphim were label names used by EMI; Seraphim was for 
       budget-priced reissues.  I'm pretty sure the Seraphim name is retired
       but I don't know about Angel.  New releases seem to be marketed 
       as "EMI Classical."
   I don't know what happened to Westminster.  I vaguely recall that
       ABC bought them, and then ABC's music operations ended up in MCA.
       Westminster used to have the funkiest LP covers.
   Musical Heritage Society, primarily a mail order operation, was still
       active as of a few years ago, but I have not seen any advertising
       from them recently.  "MusicMasters" was their label for retail
       store sales.  (Response above: maybe BMG bought them?)
   Vox is still putting CDs in store racks, but I don't know if they 
       are new recordings or just repackagings of old work.
   I never heard of Oryx before.

There are a lot of new small classical labels.  Harmonia Mundi, 
Hyperion and Chandos leap immediately to mind, and I'm sure there are 
lots more.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss