Hi,

Ok ok ... this post looks perfect for a typical agony aunt column. 
Anyway, i will throw it to you guys.

The story is pretty simple. I went completely nuts after someone. 
Unfortunately, she did not even recognise my existence. So bouqets were 
returned, phone calls went unanswered, cell phones turned off and mails 
not replied to. Twice i travelled to her city just to speak to her. No 
luck. She simply stonewalled me. (Btw, ever had the phone banged on 
you, time after time??) This went on for about six months over which my 
most heartfelt emtions were rejected, errrr uhmmm ..... which even 
included a marriage proposal. All that was left was for me was to get 
down on my knees and beg. 

It would've been ok if we didn't know each other a lot. But we knew 
each other for about three years. Out of which, we were classmates for 
two years.

Well well, finally i got out of the whole thing. But more trouble 
awaited me. I found myself interested in someone else again. I know her 
for sometime now. Not a lot, but its safe to say she's a friend. So now 
i have this fight again. Should i tell her or not?? Not knowing how she 
feels about me. The fear of getting jumped all over again is real and 
VERY big. Is it reasonable to expect her to make the first move? I am 
scared as hell of making any moves or of showing any interest.

Suggestions/Comments/flames ---- invited.

70 responses total.

        I don't know if there's enough information to go on here, and of
course, it's in a cultural setting I'm not very famlliar with, but I'll give
it a shot ... take it with as much or as little salt as you choose.

        It sounds to me as if you're doing something that I've seen a friend
do in the past.

        He didn't so much fall in love, as develop Russian-novel crushes. 
He'd notice someone usually only after they were already talking, and in most
cases that meant that the girl had decided he was a friend and not a date,
which is a difficult position to negotiate a relationship from.  At some
point he'd work up the courage to ask, but by the time he'd managed to do it,
the entire situation had turned into a massive drama, because he'd spent so
much time, effort, and emotion in the process that it really determined the
course of his life whether she said "yes" or "no".

        I think he was more in love with the drama than the girl, especially
if he didn't realise she wasn't interested.  Or maybe he was more in love
with the idea of the girl he'd had in his head.

        One of the great ironies of the situation is that I personally saw a
very attractive young woman approach him at a party, and give him her phone
number.  He never called that number, though he admitted that he was tempted
to, because she'd told him that she was leaving town to go back home in a
week or so.  I really should've decked him with a brick at that point, in the
hopes of loosening something up, but I didn't.

        His lesson, which may or may not be yours, is that people put value
on that which they have to work for.  Not work too much, or else they'll give
up.  But definitely not too little.  The easiest thing you can do to change
any interest someone has in you to disgust is to beg or plead.  If someone's
not interested, then doing so will completely ruin any chances for a later
friendship or any regard whatsoever;  if someone is interested, attempting
to appease them will often kill that interest.

        I'd say you're right to be concerned.  It sounds like you're on the
same path you were before.  What happened then that you don't want to happen
now?  What did you do, and what effects did what you did have?  Don't do what
caused the things that you don't want to happen!  In an ideal world, I'd
recommend taking some time off to casually date, to pick up both the
knowledge that you can be with someone if you choose to, or not, as you
choose, and to learn more about dating skills and whether or not this person
really is as unique as you make her out to be.  I could never follow my own
advice, though.  

pardon my ignorance, but what is an "agony aunt"?

        Advice columnist specializing in troubling issues, as opposed to
proper manners or cooking technique.

dude. sounds like you went down the dark path of stalkerdom dude
she's not interested, clean cup, move down.

right.  You're definitely coming on much too strong.

I speak from experience, because I used to have problems doing it 
myself.. the dramatics and 'in love with love,' etc.

I still say.. just be yourself, work from friendship.. unless you find 
someone who digs you just sexually, i guess.

This response has been erased.

Hmm ... here is a little about the cultural setting. Since we are in a 
cosmopolitan city, regional/religious differences are ok (usually they 
do matter a lot) .... but sex is definite no no in the beginning. I 
could ask her for a date though but that means openly saying "i am 
interested" which i'd rather avoid for reasons give below. 

The painful thing for me is to turn back from the point where i show 
explicit interest in someone. Like, once i tell her that i have more 
than a friendly interest in her, it would be hard for me to turn back. 
Kind of ugly, i guess. :( Ofcourse, i don't stalk anyone or do any sick 
stuff but i remain hung up for a long long time on that person. 

I also realise what happened the last time. When she first said no, i 
thought maybe she doubts my sincerity, so i persisted with the 
expression of my feelings. Again a thud. This went on. By the time i 
withdrew, i realise, i had hurt myself a lot. 

About this female, i am interested in now. Well, i call her casually 
and if she's busy she says she'll call back and doesn't. Other small 
things like those. That hurts. Maybe she is completely clueless that i 
am interested and if she knew she would behave differently. But i am 
scared of expressing my interest because i know what happens after that 
in case things don't go the way i'd like them to.

I guess the only option for me is to keep meeting her in our usual get-
together of friends on the weekends and wait for her to drop a sign. 
Right? Or do i take a risk again and check my odds?

its really driving me crazy. When i am down, i think let me just get 
away from all this and leave things to themselves. When i am up, i say 
go and tell her all cause things don't happen by themselves, we have to 
make them happen.

And i don't think i am in love with the notion of being in love. Ok .. 
i do desparately want someone in my life. 

I hope what i said made some sense.

Left out something ... a little about her and me. Her father died and 
she is the eldest, only has a younger brother who's still studying. Her 
mom is a house-wife. She is just starting her professioanl career and 
she is definitely ambitious. So that makes her a no-nonsense, 
responsible and very cautious kind of a person i guess. Unlike me, 
who's the youngest, spoilt and kind of born with a silver spoon in my 
mouth.

I checked with a few people i know casually and it seems i don't 
project an image of sincerity somehow. Maybe because i rarely show my 
serious side. So that means i am always cracking jokes and pulling 
those fast ones. I told her my last almost-affair but in a way that we 
laughed over the whole thing a lot. Though all my friends know that it 
was anything but to laugh at.

Don't know where it is going.

It sounds to me like you are admitting you are ambiguous about communicating
your interest because you don't like rejection. Guess what; rejection is part
of *life*. Until you can accept that, you will be doomed to the very
loneliness you are "desperate" to avoid. Of you will end up with some really
messed up person who's distorted thinking is at least equal to yours.

        In this case I'd advise the opposite of what seems to be the rational
response.

        If someone doesn't return your calls often, return theirs even less.

        Why?  Because it's only human nature to respond by calling immediately
and being more forceful and direct.  The problem is, not only does it let
someone know you're interested, it lets them know that it's pretty easy to
get to you, by simply delaying or forgetting to call.  Unfortunately, even
good people often find it impossible to not take advantage, if
subconsciously, of situations like that.

        If they don't call back at all, they aren't interested.  End of story.
If someone isn't interested, you can't do anything in the world to make them
be interested.

        But make sure they're doing at least as much of the chasing as you
are.  It's the 21st century, after all. :)

heh. sillyness abounds.

hmmmm .... well, i guess i will wait for a few months ... get to know 
her better and take my chances.

And thanks everyone.

yha, and only take one run at the target will you?

whatever the doctors order. :)

        I repeat, if you don't fix the problem before you engage *any* target,
you're most likely going to see the same result.

Thanks Jazz. Yeah ... i know you are right. I USED to feel earlier that 
whats the fun if you can't completely surrender yourself to the 
feeling. There should be atleast one thing in life where you only 
listen to your heart and shut out the brain completely. Just forget 
your ego/identity/whatever.

Now, i KNOW its not a wise thing to do. But still not sure what i will 
end up doing when the time comes. Hopefully, all the sane advice i've 
been getting should persist.

Btw, i wonder if this kind of funny stuff happened to anyone here 
actually? I mean till it happened to me, i thought it was some thing 
which happened to those silly-romantic-stupid kind of people. Ok .. 
here it is .... this is when i was into that thing for the female i 
went crazy after. I would be walking on the street, look at some 
beautiful face and actually start wondering why that face looks like 
her. Some kind of transposition would occur. Then, i would see a couple 
and feel happy for them and then suddenly feel miserable because she is 
not with me.

The funny part was, i told her all this. She must've thought i have 
gone cuckoo.

Anyways, maybe i should go and see a shrink. ;)

What country are you in, Siddhartha?  Customs on this kind of thing differ.

India. And what does being a lunatic have to do with customs?? ;)

sometime people get frightened by someone who wants to be with them. people
also prefer a challenge. it's kind of sick but true that people like a bit
of a game .. a bit of play. so they feel like theyve accomplished something,
not just lookin pretty and people polite.

i'll take my play in light witty banter followed by sex please

Re #18:  Nothing.  But for most of the posters here, dating is a completely
         acceptable activity, and casual hookups aren't looked down on too
         much.  I suspect you're under more constraints, right?

        Re #19:

        Ever read Robert Wright's _The Moral Animal_?  I think you'd like it.
A couple of really good concepts there on the evolutionary basis of human
relationships.

<jots down title>
cheers.

In case i can't get the book, what does it talk about? And how does it 
relate to my situation? 

Re. #21 Yes. The constraints here are more than in western countries. 
But then its not so constrained even. Depends more on your geographical 
location. In a city like Bombay, dating is pretty much acceptable but 
then the definition is not the same as in the west. For eg. if i were 
to approach someone unknown to me and lets say even if she was 
interested in me, she wouldn't agree for a date. So you have to know 
the person reasonably well before the dating starts. Now, it might 
sound funny to you, but the way it works is you already know someone 
for sometime and have been going out with that person with other 
friends. Then its acceptable to ask only that person out. 99%, its the 
males who do the asking. 

There are casual hookups purely for sexual reasons. But they ARE looked 
down upon mostly.

        SJ, my #22 was in response to oval's #19.  You might find the book
interesting, if you're into the psychology of human sexuality.  It's just
that, from a Darwinian perspective, and its' explanations of why men and women
act the way they do are much more reasonable and much less convoluted than
traditional psychological theories.  Oval had said something insightful that
the book had discussed in more detail, that's why I mentioned it.

One more variable. She has a colleague she seems interested in but has 
trouble admitting it. :(

Whole thing is getting way too complicated.

I wish that I could help but I never could get that whole relationship 
thing down. I act like you most of the time when it comes to females. :(

bah, grow some balls
get up there
take your best shot
if yha miss
clean cup move down

You must have dentures, phenix. 

        Where'd THAT come from?

I'm guessing it comes from the spelling "yha," which as far as I can tell is
a full-fledged phenixism and not just a recurring typo.  I find myself using
it in email occasionally when I'm expressing Greglike sentiments.

yha, (uhh-ah) corruption of you, usually used in the deep south and
american midwest.
and neat. i have a type of sentiment now:)

I thought yha was used in germany. Anyway, fish time. 

fish time? oi
yha is used in germany and parts of minisota. but not in this context
that's more of a y-aa

Fish-time= Time to go esat fried fish. yummy! a-yaa . . . OK, Stephen King made
jud do that in Pet Sematary. 

uhhh. k

        Signal breaking up, come again good buddy?

Actually, Stephen King uses "ayuh", which is native New England-speak for
"Yup" or "Yeah".

(and actually the German is spelled "Ja", and pronuced "ya", with a long a
sound.)

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss