As you can probably tell, *my* grammar is terrible.  Do you have 
a grammar question?  Do you have a grammar answer?  

Well, this is the place for you!

346 responses total.

My first question is about the whole who, that, which thing.  
How do I know when I should use who instead of that, and which
instead of who?

Nephi, see previous agora for discussion of restrictive vs non-restrictive
clauses.  In brief, parenthetical information (non-restrictive clause, non-
essential info) gets set off by commas.  In that situation you would use
who (if a person) or which (if not).  Otherwise, use that.  Whom, of course,
is used in a clause where you would ordinarily have used who, except the
clause is such that the who(m) is actually the object and not the subject
of the clause.

Examples:
 Ralph, whom I saw yesterday, seemed cheerful.
 Dogs that bark in the middle of the night are annoying.
 Cats, which are good hunters, are very independent creatures.
(Some would use "who" with cats to personalize them, but strictly speaking
 this is incorrect.  If you prefer to think of cats as people, substitute
 "hyenas" in the example.)

Wow, Bret!  I've never seen such a concise, easy to understand answer.  

Now for my next question.  How in the heck do I use commas in quotes 
when the comma is part of the sentence and not the quote?  For example:
Jane said "Dick has herpes", but dick denied it.  

I definitely regret the fact that I did not pay more attention in 
my grade school grammar class.  Now I wish I had not just rented my
grammar book, but had been able  to keep it for reference.  

Jane said, "Dick has herpes," but Dick denied it.

How about:  Jane asked, "Does Dick have herpes?" and dick denied it.  

Okay, which is more proper?

1)  When you get to the prompt, type "!fortune."

2)  When you get to the prompt, type "!fortune".

Number one is correct English syntax, although if you type what
is in the quotes, you'll get an error message.  Number two is
good "computerese," but poor English.

I guess the answer is "When in Rome......"

I never understood the punctuation/quotation mark thing, but I believe the
rule is to include the punctuation before the quotation unless the
quotation marks clearly set off something meant as a single unit.  So,
type "!fortune".  should have the period after, but in most circumstances
it should be before.  I would place the period/comma/whatever afterwards
for things like coined words (eg.  Jane wanted to see sixteen "Floof
Bork's", but I only wished to see three.).  Like I said, I was never too good
with this rule...

Here's one for you.  The following sentence can be punctuated using the
usual conventions to make perfect sense.  How should it appear?

Mary while John had had had had had had had had had had had the teacher's
approval

Mary, while John had had "had", had had "had had". "Had had" had had the
teacher's approval.

Re #3:  I always thought the rule, "Put the comma inside the quotes", was a
crock, so I refuse to do it.
   I don't understand #9.

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Well, whenever *any* of you see any of my grammar mistakes, please 
point them out here.  I really want to get my grammar back on track.

That is, when your grammar derails? 

<nephi wakes up the neighbors with laughter>

Also, enter your pet grammar peeves here, too.  If many people are 
making the mistake, this might help.  

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I have anew grammar pet peeve.  (I really do have a lot of them).  It
seems people are so paranoid about not mistakenly using the objective
pronouns as subjects (i.e. Him and I went), that they are often using
the nominative case as objects (i.e I gave it to he and Sue).

If you love the file, you will loose it in the wilds.  You will also be
losing it.

My pet peeve:  Many people incorrectly use the term "I could care less!"
when they should be saying "I couldn't care less!"  If you COULD care less,
then you have room to care less.  If you couldn't care less, then you are at
the point where nothing about this subject is worthy of you attention cares)
Anyway, I could care less about this item (meaning, of course, that...
I CARE!) :~)

But if I *say* that I could care less, then that implies that the my
level of caring differs from zero by a sufficiently small amount that it
is necessary for me to point it out to you.  If I cared *alot* then pointing
out that I could care less would be silly.

On the other hand, if I told a mother she should care less about her
children, she might well respond, "No! I couldn't care less."  The 
implication here is that her care so overwhelms her thaat it is beyond
her control.  

There are lots of ways to look at that phrase.

re 20:  Not quite able to digest the first paragraph.  Could you explain it?

Second paragraph:  "No! I couldn't care less" is a double negative which
is a positive.  She *could* care less, but she doesn't because she's a
mother.  It's beyond her capabilities to care less about her children.

Which way would you respond to "Was Nicole Brown's melting ice cream
vanilla or strawberry?"

View hidden response.

No.  It is not a double negative.

re 21:ice cream flavor?  I couldn't care less!

40 years or so ago, everyone said "I couldn't care less."  Around 
that time, the ironic variant "As if I could care less" came into 
vogue.  Then, "as if" started being replace by the equivalent but 
ungrammatical "like."  Then the original function of the word 
"like" was forgotten.  And finally, the "like" was dropped, and 
"I could care less" was born.  The process went like this.  
(Dates approximate.): 

     1950 - Mary didn't invite me.  I couldn't care less.
     1955 - Mary didn't invite me, as if I could care less.
     1960 - Mary didn't invite me, like I could care less. 
     1965 - Mary didn't invite me.  Like, I could care less.
     1970 - Mary didn't invite me.  I could care less.

The pronunciation of "I could care less" gives its ancestry away.  
If it were truly the opposite of "I COULDN'T care LESS," it would 
be pronounced "I COULD care LESS."  But people say "I could CARE 
LESS," which retains at least an echo of the original "As if I 
could CARE LESS." 

As to subjective case vs objective case, I agree.  People who 
say "Dad drove me" will also say "Dad drove Heather and I," 
as if the rules of grammar somehow change when Heather gets 
into the car.  (Then again, maybe they do.  Good idea for a 
story.) 

On the other hand, the inertia of idioms is awesome: I have 
yet to hear anyone say "Between you, I and the lamppost." 

If they did, Fowler would rotate in his bier. I meant to ask, md - is
#25 your dissertation?

I want to hear how the story about the rules of grammaar changing when Heather
gets in the car comes out.

re 26: Right arm, md.  But, I often hear "between you and I". (and I
LIKE the period after the quotes!).

re 26: should be "People that say...". 

Re #27, yes #25 is my little dissertation, based on events
I observed as they were happening.  It is unquestionably true,
although I don't know how to prove that.  

Re #28, I must write that story.

Re #29, I often hear "between you and I," too, but it's always
"between you, me, and the lamppost," isn't it?  My point.

Re #30, like you say.

On the subject of "you and I" vs. "you and me", I had an English teacher who 
advised us to take out the "you" and see what sounds right. Solid advice, and
it always works.
"I would of done that." GRRRR! "I would have" is correct, but the former is 
often used.
your = belongs to you   you're = you are   <---another common mistake
I won't get started on the evil apostrophe until next time. =)

Shouldn't "between you, me, and the lamppost" be "between you, the
lamppost, and me?"

No.  It should be: "Among you, me, and the lamppost."  "Between" never
     works for more than two items of comparison.

My students often write 'their' instead of 'there'.  Drives me nuts.

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Kae get's very mad when people use the apostrophy's in the wrong place's.
But they look just so damn neat in sentence's. :)

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Btw, has anyone else noticed that the "as if" that became detached 
from "I could care less" twenty-five years ago has recently 
returned as a standalone expression of derision in the "Wayne's 
World" movies?  Add as footnote to list in #25:  

     1990 - "Mary didn't invite me.  AS IF!"

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss