I live in Ypsilanti and hang out in Depot town.

24 responses total.

Workplace violence is the #1 cause of death for women at work and the #2 cause
for men.  This means: Men can run faster

Or maybe it means that men are stuck in 'most all the most dangerous
job positions.  You happen to know many women doing roofing, tree
trimming, or other high-body-count kinds of work?

re #2
Actually, the most hazardous jobs out there are timber, crab fishing, and
commercial pilot IN ALASKA.  Seeing as I don't know anyone in Alaska besides
mcnally, though...

Sometime like 94% of on the job deaths are men. The #1 cause of 
workplace deaths for both men and women is automobile accidents. 

er s/sometime/something

http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0004.pdf

Oh yeah. I live in Ypsilanti and I hang out in Depot Town. 

Interesting story on NPR today about fire fighters dying on the job
- mostly they die of heart attacks.  They're mostly men in not-so-
great cardiovascular shape, and battling a blaze is often a three-
way (physical stress, mental stress, at least some smoke/chemical
inhaled) recipe for a quick coronary.

It has often puzzled me why we require physical fitness testing to join police
and fire departments, but don't continue to require reasonable levels of
fitness afterwards.

Huh. I never really thought about that. 

I'll try to remember to ask my Dad. He was a public employer labor
relations specialist before he retired and he has negotiated probably
hundreds of contracts with police and fire unions. It seems like
something that had to have come up at one time or another.

I recall NPR mentioning that most fire fighters are volunteers, so
their "employers" are in a poor position to tell anyone to stay in 
shape, and not offering any health plan that might pay attention to 
(let along try to improve) cardio risks & fitness.

Even where the fire fighters are full-time, paid, and don't have a
union to "protect" them, how many municipalities are sophisticated
and prosperous enough to sustain an effective, pro-active employee
health program?  I'd guess it's pretty close to zero. 

Flip-side, paid fire fighters dying of heart attacks are exercising
their sacred freedoms, freeing the taxpayers from a huge liability
for future pension & health benefits, and providing public funerals
where politicians can look good praising the fallen heros.  Clearly
this is a win-win-win situation. 

 "effective, pro-active employee health program".  Why did you assume that
the municipality had to supply that?  

For example, anyone with a Commercial Driver's License or a pilot's license
has to pass a physical every year.  As far as I know, their employers are not
require to be pro-active in keeping them healthy.  They just have to pass the
physical every year, on their own.  

If there is/was some sort of periodic professional certification that
fire fighters needed, then maybe it could include a cardio fitness
minimum.  Nothing in my femto-fact knowledge base suggests such to be 
the case.

The argument for police/fire entry level fitness tests has always been that
other members of the team have to rely on them to tote them around.  Both
strength and cardio tests would seem to be called for.

I know my Dad mentioned that for years the test kept most women from
being firefighters because part of the test was to carry a heavy dummy
up a ladder three stories which only the very strongest women could do.
But then someone sued a department or something and pointed out that the
circumstances where anyone would need to rescue someone else and carry
them *UP* a ladder three stories is rare indeed, since most buildings
dont have that many sub basements. 

Yes, a lot of these tests got more rational when it was pointed out they were
keeping otherwise qualified women from the jobs.  It took a few lawsuits, but
they did change.

My teen-years hometown was a bedroom community.  They got the recruit-
women religion when they noticed that most of their volunteer fire
fighters worked in (relatively) distant places, leaving the township
SOL during business hours.  Stay-at-home housewives turned fireladies
seemed more retro (a la Rosie the Riveter) than modern, somehow.

I have a friend who works in the engine section of a fire dept and she's quite
capable and by all appearances fit and average looking.  As long as the
firefighter can swing an axe, climb through a window, and carry an airpack
with gear then I don't think it's an issue.

They why have a physical fitness test in the first place?

 They why have a physical fitness test in the first place?

Most fire departments have 3 requirements: BMI, fitness, and strength
When I was on the GM Firebrigade in Flint, ability was the top of the list
next to training and experience.  Ability could be looked at as your ability
to maneuver to save others' as well as yourself while using the tools.  It
wasn't uncommon to be called over to some guy who fell over from a heartattack
on the assembly lines and have to hoist his 350lb body over your head out of
a welding pit or over some machinery onto the stretcher.  And before you even
thought about diving into the pit, you had to test the oxygen ratings while
carrying/wearing all your gear to ensure you yourself were safe to enter.

Right. That is a good reason to have a fitness test in the first place. 
It is also a good reason to continue to have fitness tests

I'll say this much, though...we only had the fitness test upon hiring.  There
were a couple guys that could barely climb out of the vehicles without
breaking a sweat.  I remember coming back from Mott Hospital with one of them
and he detoured into Capitol for chilidogs.  I wasn't any better though cuz
I was smoking 2 packs a day.

I called my Dad and he said that the reason Fire Departments dont 
continue to require fitness tests is because of their unions. He also 
mentioned that fire fighters unions are very powerful politically so it 
is very unlikely that any government body will ever be able to require 
fitness tests for even their paid firefighters. They require fitness 
tests in order to obtain employment because that is the only time 
management can do that because people seeking employment are not 
members of the union. 


He said that a lot of unions have negotiated deals where any heart 
problem is automatically duty caused and thus eligible for disability 
pay. He said that firefighters who die do not save much in future 
benefits because unions have negotiated pretty big benefit packages. It 
would be normal for the heirs of a dead firefighter to get $250,000 in 
addition to continued pension and health benefits for their families. 
Also, while firefighters dying of heart conditions might be a problem, 
a bigger problem is firefighters who develop heart conditions but who 
dont die. They essentially retire with disability pay. That might not 
have been a huge problem in the past when people with heart disease 
could be expected to die quickly but these days, people live decades 
after having heart attacks and such. 

The thing of it is that it really isnt an old person's job. It is the 
kind of physically demanding job that maybe should have an age 
limitation. But of course, age discrimination is illegal (as it should 
be imho. If firefighters want to take the risk of occupational heart 
problems...more power to 'em. )

I'll say their benefits packages are huge.  I was payroll clerk for the city
of Westland just before Staci was born (almost 20 years ago).  One of our Fire
Captains retired (at 40) and I had to figure and cut his payoff check.  His
net on that check was more than twice my annual gross salary by the time all
the benefits were figured in, i.e. vacation bank, sick bank, personal day
bank, holiday pay, shift differentail, etc.  That payoff check was in the
order of $43,000 take home and he got his last regular paycheck as well and
that was also substantial.

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