Ever so slowly information is getting out about toxins leaching into
the ground water at the city dump.  It was about two weeks ago 
I first saw the contaminant 1,4-dioxane linked to this site.  Someone
wrote a scathing letter to the editor on how Ann Arbor's City Council
knew about the contamination and was essentially avoiding stopping
its spread.

The second article followed about a week later and reported that yes
there was indeed dioxane coming from the site but Council 
thought the contaminant levels were within acceptable limits.
Yet, the city forced Gelman Sciences to a far lower "acceptable"
1,4-dioxane limits when negotiating Gelman's cleanup plan.

Has anyone read or heard more about this?  It would be reassuring 
to hear that this is a well known problem and experts are working
on a fair and safe solution.  But I have my doubts.

24 responses total.

Mary,

We've been told at University townhouses that the top of the water table
has been contaminated, but that the tests down under that, like 15ft or 
something, were clean.  This was a year or more ago.

I first heard about this problem several months ago, in the form of Gelman
propeganda during their fight with the city over 1,4 dioxane.  At that time,
I think that they were spreading this through the Liberatarian Party, who
I think was also responsible for the information this time.  I'm not really
sure, though.  I haven't heard too much about this.

How close to the landfill is the nearest housing on well water?

Mary,

I believe that'd be our complex.. University Townhouses.  There is a 
house/day care facility right at the junction of Ellsworth and Platt,
but I have no info if they're serviced by city water or not.

I also have no idea of Forest Hills (I think that's the name of the complex
next to Univeristy Townhouses) uses well water or not.  Then, there is a 
house on the same side of Ellsworth as the dump, with the dump in its
backyard.  Again, I don't know about their water supplier.

Forest Hills?  What do they expect the water to be like when they name the
complex after a cemetary? ;)

Sedentary, quiet, .............

This response has been erased.

Are those drains you use? Drain traps should prevent gases backing up
through drains, unless your vent pipe is plugged (bird nests,
meteorites, etc).

Geez! Just the other day I was plunging away on my drain and this huge 
rock-like thing popped out!  Until that moment in my life I wasn't
aware that such things could happen.  Thanks for the info, rane!

There is a report about the landfill that is available to the public.
Just appear at the City of Ann Arbor's City Engineer's office and
ask for one.  It's large and complex but it should tell you more
than many would want to know.  (It's always a risk to be well
informed.)

I have seen the report.  My impression was that it was large and
too technical for my background.  I passed it on to my friend of
mine to read.  I'll ask him if he's read it yet.

This response has been erased.

Rarely used drains evaporate their water seal, and pass gas 8-<. Put
in antifreeze, if the drain is not going to be used for a long time.

I thought anitfreeze evaporated faster than water.  Why put that in?

Antifreeze (glycol type) is less than 1% as volatile as water. I think
I saw a recommendation to use a 50% antifreeze / 50% water mixture, as
straight antifreeze softens plastic and rubber seals.

Gasoline-line antifreeze evaporates faster than water (or gasoline
for that matter). Radiator antifreeze is an absolutely different
chemical and evaporates as rcurl stated above.
  
That the lable (antifreeze) is the same is technically unfortunate.

DO NOT USE GASOLINE LINE ANTIFREEZE. That is volatile and flammable.
Also, DO NOT PUT GLYCOL ANTIFREEZE IN YOUR GAS TANK. That is nonvolatile
and will ruin your engine. (I have never used gasoline-line antifreeze,
and consider it one of those "magical" gimmicks that don't do anything,
but get a loyal following. Sort of a "chemical dependency".)

   Unless you are flying at an obscene altitiude, I would second that.

  Of course, Aviation gasoline already has some antifreeze, so does
Jet-A and Jet-B (JP-4). I would not recommend adding the aforementioned
`Jet fuels to your gas. They burn hot and you will, for a while run
great. When you shut your motor off, call a tow truck. you`ll need it.

  I used to use a 50/50 mix of Shell 100LL and Mobil Super in my tank
and it did wonders for my engine. ;)
shell 100LL is avgas; blue in color.

Shell 100LL and Mobil Super precipitate into a solid brick when they
are mixed, don't they?

 no, not really, It just brings the octane level from high to obscene.

   I for one, while in Aviation school, had a lot of crazy ideas for running
engines and I did a lot of experimentation with avgas and car gas.

  Muncle once owned a Mobil station. and the airport was just down
the street.

Re#10:  The Ann Arbor landfill was planned in 3 phases.  Phase 1
        was dug as a sand pit in the 1940's.  The area's garbage
        went in.  This was before liners and before any sepera-
        tion of garbage.  Essentially what was originally 
        dumped into the landfill is not entirely known and 
        what the rain causes the leachate to become is not
        known.  Dioxin is only one of the dangerous chemicals
        present.

        The rain has caused leachate from the landfill run
        into the groundwater in the area, esp. under University
        Townhouses.  Since ALL the ground water deposits in the
        Ann Arbor area are connected, the water for the whole
        area is threatened.  It is not known if the contamin-
        ated will eventually bubble up and contaminate the
        soil.

Gasoline-antifreeze is basically methanol, an alcohol which mixes 
well with petroleum products +as well as+ water. It's very much
cheaper to buy methanol as methanol and add about 8 ounces every
couple of tank-fulls. 
  
For that matter, so does isopropal, which is easier to obtain and
works well also. Use the 90+% stuff, it's not as diluted to
begin with.

Gasoline, of course, cannot freeze (even in Michigan). Methanol or
iso-propanol acts to prevent any water present from freezing. Methanol
used to be considered hard on carburetor (and other) seals. I haven't
heard of iso-propanol being used for this but - don't use the "drugstore"
70% stuff - get *99%* (if you can). 

Be careful not to confuse dioxin with 1,4 dioxane.  Dioxin is the one that m
most people have heard about and that much research has been done.  1,4 dioxane
is less studied and its effects are less known... but some researchers are
suggesting that it may prove to be more deadly than dioxin.

Before using any anti-freeze, you may want to check how much 1,4 dioxane it
contains.

Also be careful to know the differences between the Ann Arbor Landfill 1,4 
dioxane problem and the Gelman Sciences Inc. 1,4 dioxane problem.  While
both are causing 1,4 dioxane to be released into aquifers, the root cause
of the spills and the available remedial actions available are quite 
different.

Be alert for mis-information relating to these subjects.  There are those
whose interests are served by confusing and delaying the public's 
understanding of these issues.

I do not think any researchers are suggesting that 1,4 dioxane is more
deadly than dioxin. Please cite sources from the medical literature. In
this connection, honeyc's last admonition applies.

Response not possible - You must register and login before posting.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss