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| Author |
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| 11 new of 109 responses total. |
jep
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response 99 of 109:
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Nov 18 16:15 UTC 2001 |
If McGwire, Gwynn, Ripken and Henderson are all on the same ballot and
they don't all make it as 1st time selections, then the selection
process is inexcusably flawed. Their accomplishments all obviously
stand on their own and place all of them well within the ranks of
players qualified for the Hall of Fame. They should all be unanimous
selections.
But there *is* a good chance they wouldn't all make it on the 1st
ballot. And none of them would be unanimous selections. The process is
pretty specious.
They'll win entry, and be given votes, in this order:
Ripken, Gwynn, Henderson, McGwire
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slynne
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response 100 of 109:
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Nov 18 19:57 UTC 2001 |
You know, even if McGwire's motives were as altruistic as richard is
painting, it is possible that he might still be worth that salary even
if he isnt as good of a ball player these days. The name recognition
alone is worth quite a lot. If he brings fans to the games, he is worth
the salary. I mean, I dont watch major league baseball and of the four
people jep just mentioned I only know who two of them are: McGwire and
Ripken. The only reason I know who Ripken is though is because NPR ran a
story about him when he retired. I had never heard of him before that.
But I have heard of Mark McGwire and even know what he looks like. He is
famous. That kind of name recognition is worth something.
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jep
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response 101 of 109:
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Nov 19 15:28 UTC 2001 |
Wow. Sports fans sometimes lose track of the perspective of those who
aren't as interested. Don't know who Rickey Henderson, Tony Gwynn or
even Cal Ripken *are*?
We need a rundown:
Mark McGwire -- first man to hit 70 home runs. #6 on all-time home run
list with 583. Won World Series with Oakland.
Tony Gwynn -- eight batting titles with San Diego. Hit .300 in 18
consecutive years. Hit .368 between 1994-1997, the third highest
average in major league history over a 4 year span. He never struck
out 4 times in a game; only struck out 3 times in 1 game. 15 All-Star
games. Two World Series appearances (1984, 1998)
Cal Ripken, Jr. -- Played in 2632 consecutive games, a major league
record. One of 7 players with 3000 hits and 400 homers. Most home
runs by a shortstop (345). Highest season fielding percentage for a
shortstop (.996, 1990). Fewest errors for a shortstop over a season.
(3, 1990) 19 All-Star appearances.
Rickey Henderson -- All-time leader in stolen bases (1395; only man to
ever get 1000), runs scored (2246), leadoff homers (not sure). It's
harder to get career information for Rickey Henderson than for other
great players. But what he does (get on base, advance to another base,
score runs), he is the best there ever was.
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brighn
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response 102 of 109:
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Nov 19 15:37 UTC 2001 |
Re: Ripkin. You say he hit more than 400 homers, but then say he hit the most
HRs for the position of SS (345). Was there a typo, or is this because his
homers as a SS only get counted in games where he played as SS?
Re: Henderson. "Only man to ever...": I wasn't aware there were females in
MLB. >=}
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jep
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response 103 of 109:
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Nov 19 20:14 UTC 2001 |
Right, Ripken spent the last few years as a third baseman, so his
homers while playing at that position don't count as homers hit by a
shortstop.
I might have said Henderson was the only "athlete", or "player",
or "man", or any of a number of other words, to describe Rickey
Henderson. "Man" was the shortest.
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jep
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response 104 of 109:
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Nov 19 20:17 UTC 2001 |
Barry Bonds won his record 4th MVP award. He got 30 of 32 1st place
votes. (Sammy Sosa got the other two.)
I am quite relieved. Bonds had the best offensive year in history. If
he hadn't won the MVP award, it would have been a terrible injustice.
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brighn
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response 105 of 109:
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Nov 19 20:32 UTC 2001 |
#103: But if you'd said "player," you wouldn't have opened yourself up to a
Weisenheimer like me making a comment, thus leading you to all taht extra
typing you did to explain yourself... ;}
OOC, if a player starts a season at SS, spends a third of the season as the
DH, then goes back and finishes the season of SS (maybe they have an injury
in the middle part of the season), would what they did as DH count as "stuff
by a SS"? How about that weird sh-- when a player plays multiple positions
in the same game?
I'm just nosey. =}
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jep
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response 106 of 109:
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Nov 19 21:35 UTC 2001 |
I don't know, if I'd said "player" you might have asked me how many non-
players have hit homers in major league baseball history. (That answer
would be "none", just as the previous answer was "none.) It was a
silly comment, but I'm the idiot for answering it, I guess.
If a player plays DH for the middle third of the season, the at-bats
for those games would not count as at-bats by a shortstop.
I once saw Kirby Puckett, the Hall of Fame Minnesota Twins outfielder,
play 2B for a couple of innings. If he'd had an at-bat after changing
position from OF to 2B, then that at-bat should not have counted as an
at-bat by an outfielder. But probably the official statistics for
major league baseball show all of Puckett's at-bats as being those of
an outfielder. His at-bats as a DH or 2B or any other positions he
played would probably not be considered significant enough to bother
with.
Players who often play multiple positions in a game are not stars, and
their stats are not interesting when discussing the greats of the
game. If you can play one position well, then that's your position.
No team would mess with your ability by moving you around to different
positions. Only scrubs have to play a lot of positions in a single
game.
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brighn
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response 107 of 109:
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Nov 19 21:37 UTC 2001 |
#106, para 1> Best be safe, use "entity" in the future. ;}
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albaugh
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response 108 of 109:
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Nov 22 10:09 UTC 2001 |
Re: #104 re: "travesty" - That's an old debate: MVP is *not* synonymous with
"player of the year". Even with all of Barry's homers, the Giants didn't make
the playoffs. An excellent case could be made for the key players on Arizona:
Johnson, Schilling, Gonzales. I'm sure the sentiment was all for Barry, but
his "value" didn't help his team to the playoffs.
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jep
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response 109 of 109:
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Nov 24 02:28 UTC 2001 |
re #108: The precedent was set in, I believe, 1987, when Andre Dawson of
the Chicago Cubs won the award. His team finished in last place. Just
what was valuable about Dawson's performance? They couldn't have
finished in last without him?
The Giants almost made it to the playoffs. I don't have much doubt they
wouldn't have been as close without him. And for individual seasons, he
had the best there ever was offensively, by my definition. He didn't
just lead in two of the three Triple Crown stats (homers, RBIs, the 3rd
is batting average). He set all time records in those stats, and set
the record in walks as well. It's fitting he also set the record for
MVP awards; he's the only guy to have 4 of them. It was a season to
remember.
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