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Grex > Coop11 > #84: outgoing internet access for non-members | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 127 responses total. |
rtg
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response 98 of 127:
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Apr 6 19:38 UTC 1999 |
re resp:92 I thought it was aruba who was frequently pushing recycled,
self-made envelopes.
back on topic: In general, I would like to support more open access.
However, I do not wish to become an anonymizer service, so I would support
blocks to any inbound/outbound use of the same protocol. I do not see a
legitimate use for even paying members to telnet in, then back out again.
Considering that we have such limited storage space, FTP use by a remote
telnet user, would result in a second FTP session to send it back out, So I
think that we should encourage people who have the capability to FTP directly
to their own machine, and not be relaying thru us. It is ONLY the dial-in
users who have a legitimate reason to use ANY outgoing TCP/IP service. By
definition, if you can make a TCP/IP connection to grex, you can run your own
TCP/IP clients.
What would it take to change our kernel blocks so that internet access,
including http, be available only to those connected thru our terminal
server, or directly connected to our local ethernet, regardless of membership
status? This is the proposal that I can support. This will focus our
resources on our mission: to provide an open-access conferencing system, and
to provide computer and internet experience and education to members of the
local community who cannot afford it elsewhere.
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ryan
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response 99 of 127:
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Apr 6 21:27 UTC 1999 |
This response has been erased.
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mary
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response 100 of 127:
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Apr 6 22:09 UTC 1999 |
I wouldn't mind losing membership money that is only
given for the perks. The fewer of those folks voting
on Grex policy the better for Grex, long haul.
Nice response, Rick.
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dpc
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response 101 of 127:
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Apr 7 18:20 UTC 1999 |
I'm appalled to learn that I have the highest *total number* of
responses in Coop (at least of the top 20 "should index" people.
Hm. Maybe I should save up my words to make fewer, but lengthier,
responses...
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prp
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response 102 of 127:
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Apr 7 19:38 UTC 1999 |
Re 99: The only limit that would be placed on members, is a prohibition
on loopback connections. That's no problem. Anybody who is using them
has either made a silly mistake, or is trying to generte load on the
Cybersapce Internet line.
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aruba
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response 103 of 127:
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Apr 7 22:07 UTC 1999 |
Actually, Dave, you need to look at the full list to see who has entered the
most total words in coop. Here is the first page, when sorted that way:
User Resps Lines Words Shlds Shoulds/Word
-------- ----- -------- ---------- ----- ------------
steve 355 3627 31176 69 0.0022
aruba 301 3247 26277 74 0.0028
janc 171 3050 24668 89 0.0036
rcurl 305 2149 19092 56 0.0029
mdw 122 1678 16650 34 0.0020
keesan 161 1612 16263 19 0.0012
remmers 207 1730 13367 37 0.0028
scg 137 1264 13121 37 0.0028
devnull 89 828 7485 18 0.0024
scott 97 1011 7356 11 0.0015
valerie 95 768 7111 11 0.0015
mary 80 855 7001 19 0.0027
mta 104 873 6910 12 0.0017
jep 64 641 5627 20 0.0036
cmcgee 88 582 5261 11 0.0021
davel 97 548 4711 15 0.0032
richard 54 504 4391 27 0.0061
krj 62 559 4363 15 0.0034
rtg 38 443 4212 5 0.0012
srw 45 447 4090 21 0.0051
dang 52 563 3987 3 0.0008
dpc 110 503 3965 23 0.0058
Now try it on the last Agora - three guesses who's first. :)
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hhsrat
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response 104 of 127:
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Apr 8 01:54 UTC 1999 |
You mean I don't even make it onto the first page of the should list? I
thought I'd said should at least 5 times in this coop.
When I tried to run the little program, it froze on me. How should I do
it (and when) to avoid problems?
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aruba
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response 105 of 127:
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Apr 8 03:25 UTC 1999 |
It takes a long time to run. What I do is run it in the background and pipe
the output to a file, like this:
!~aruba/bin/wordcount should coop11 > shoulds &
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prp
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response 106 of 127:
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Apr 8 03:54 UTC 1999 |
I get "/bin/sh: ~aruba/bin/wordcount: not found"
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davel
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response 107 of 127:
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Apr 8 12:05 UTC 1999 |
"~" isn't supported by sh. Try
!/a/a/r/aruba/bin/wordcount should coop11 > shoulds &
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aruba
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response 108 of 127:
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Apr 8 20:43 UTC 1999 |
Sorry - Dave's right.
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devnull
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response 109 of 127:
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Apr 11 04:46 UTC 1999 |
Re #98: I find it convinient that I can use cvs for outgoing internet
access for grex. Your proposal would cut off a service that I find
useful.
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keesan
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response 110 of 127:
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Apr 11 15:50 UTC 1999 |
Unlimited outgoing access for paying members, and for dial in nonpaying users?
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ryan
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response 111 of 127:
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Apr 11 17:16 UTC 1999 |
This response has been erased.
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prp
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response 112 of 127:
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Apr 14 23:26 UTC 1999 |
Re 109: How does the Concurrent Versions System provide outgoing Internet
access?
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prp
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response 113 of 127:
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Apr 14 23:42 UTC 1999 |
Re 97: There was indeed a 4800bps bottleneck somewhere. It turns out
it was my modem.
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lilmo
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response 114 of 127:
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Apr 16 22:39 UTC 1999 |
Re resp:113 - funny how that works.
Re resp:103 - I wonder if you ran that on certain older editions of ccop if
I would show up as fairly "response"ive. :-)
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aruba
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response 115 of 127:
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Apr 17 04:39 UTC 1999 |
Feel free to try. :)
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devnull
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response 116 of 127:
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Apr 30 06:30 UTC 1999 |
Re #112: CVS can be used in client/server mode. I find it convinient
for keeping my dotfiles in sync across different machines.
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dang
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response 117 of 127:
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May 6 02:50 UTC 1999 |
I quite like how Grex is now. I like that there is a definate time
limit on outoging access, after which a person has to prove they're
still alive (and if they pay by check, they are re-verifying). I like
that outgoing services, unattractive as they may be for various
technical reasons like limited bandwidth, are made even more
unattractive by the necessity of sending ID *AND* paying. I don't do
very much of the security work now, but I'd hate to see what it would be
like if we were a more attractive way-station. I'd hate to see how our
link usage would be if more people could fairly easily run ftp from
here. Finally, I know that sending money is a *much* larger deterant
for me trying something that just sending information. I'm glad, as I
don't think giving access is a large part of Grex's mission. I like
that Grex is a destination, not a pitstop.
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mary
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response 118 of 127:
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May 6 10:47 UTC 1999 |
Grex is here today because of folks who thought of Grex more
in terms of the needs of others than of their own. I'd like
to see that continue, if possible. I'd like to see policy
decisions driven by what folks in the community need rather
than our own "I like to do this and that so that's all that
Grex needs to do."
Is there a need in our local (dial-up) community for folks
to have slow but affordable (free) outgoing telnet?
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aruba
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response 119 of 127:
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May 6 14:01 UTC 1999 |
That's a good question. I have no idea what the answer is. I get mail
fairly frequently from people who are interested in buying outgoing access
(that's the way they're thinking of it), and want to know if we'll cut
them a deal, or want to know if we'll allow eggdrop, or something like
that. I can't think of a time when I got mail like that from someone who
was local to Ann Arbor, though. That could just be because I'm the
treasurer, though - a lot of the people who write are people who want to
know how they can pay if they are in India or Spain or Finland or Mexico
or some other place.
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rcurl
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response 120 of 127:
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May 6 15:20 UTC 1999 |
Isn't that (this) kind of service - dialin and telnet out - nearly
disappearing? ISP are mostly PPP now, aren't they? How many providers
like Grex are there still out there?
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dang
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response 121 of 127:
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May 6 21:23 UTC 1999 |
Not very many. However, is dialin and telnet out useful to people?
One other thing to keep in mind. Currently, we get huge numbers of
people who want to run bots. Those bots don't run, because we restrict
outgoing internet. If we stopped, people would run these bots, even
though we don't allow them, and even though they get killed when the
person logs out, and swamp our internet connection. On top of that,
they will try to find a way to stay logged in all the time, so their bot
won't get killed. That's what I'd try to do in a similar situation.
That means a perpetually full Grex with no-one doing anything.
Then again, maybe not. That's what I'd expect, tho.
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mdw
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response 122 of 127:
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May 7 04:31 UTC 1999 |
If you have "ppp", you can already telnet to most places - indeed, you
would need telnet to get to grex. There's not really much legitimate
need to be able to telnet into grex, then back out - it's faster and
simplier to telnet straight to that other system rather than through
grex. The last time I looked through grex's logs for failed telnet
attempts, there was actually a surprisingly small list of other popular
places. m-net was one of them; there were one or two other free shell
account places I'd never heard of before, and random muds - as I recall,
at least.
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