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Grex > Coop11 > #249: Internet Connectivity Revisited |  |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 176 responses total. |
scg
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response 91 of 176:
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Jun 6 00:41 UTC 2001 |
(Merit is government funded, and isn't comperable to a standalone coop. In
the DSL case, the only way DSL was ever really cheap was because it was
getting subsidized by lots of people buying stock hoping to get rich.
Non-profit DSL wouldn't have the investors throwing money at it, and would
thus cost significantly more to its end users).
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aruba
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response 92 of 176:
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Jun 6 02:41 UTC 2001 |
I should remind everyone that we have until June 15th (or possibly July 2nd)
to cancel our contract with CoreComm, or it renews for another year.
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scg
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response 93 of 176:
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Jun 6 04:11 UTC 2001 |
Can the contract be changed to month to month at this point? What is the
cancellation penalty?
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aruba
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response 94 of 176:
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Jun 6 08:08 UTC 2001 |
I can't find anything in the contract about penalties for breaking it. I
suppose we could try to negotiate a new contract that goes month-to-month.
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janc
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response 95 of 176:
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Jun 6 09:45 UTC 2001 |
Is CoreComm the former Voyager or what?
Is there any alternative other than Ameritech DSL?
The only web page I can find for Ameritech DSL in Michigan is
http://www1.ameritech.com/sb/site/page/1,3002,2233,00.html
but this is assymmetric DSL, which is not what we want. Maybe
http://www1.ameritech.com/sb/site/page/1,3002,2512,00.html
is the right thing, but I can't tell exactly what it is and there
are no prices listed on-line.
The cable alternative is equally hard to figure out (prices are easy, but
they seem reluctant to tell you just how fast "High-Speed" is), and probably
unsuitable for Grex anyway.
Are there other alternatives? Return to ISDN?
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janc
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response 96 of 176:
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Jun 6 09:59 UTC 2001 |
Apparantly some ISP resell Ameritech DSL, but a web search didn't reveal any.
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i
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response 97 of 176:
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Jun 6 13:11 UTC 2001 |
We're interested in Ameritech DSL service very much like what grex would
want here at work, but they can't be bothered to respond to my inquiry.
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gull
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response 98 of 176:
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Jun 6 14:17 UTC 2001 |
I think my boss recently managed to order a symmetric DSL connection from
Ameritech, but I don't know the details. You'd probably have to call and
talk to someone. Their web page is very unhelpful.
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aruba
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response 99 of 176:
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Jun 6 17:22 UTC 2001 |
Re #95: CoreComm bought Voyager, apparently.
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rksjr
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response 100 of 176:
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Jun 6 21:40 UTC 2001 |
Robert Cringely, host of the documentary "Triumph of the
Nerds" on PBS, has two sites which I found informative
regarding the business side of the DSL business, of which
the following are excerpts:
SEPTEMBER 14, 2000
Through an ILEC Darkly
How DSL Works and Might Even Make Us Rich
By Robert X. Cringely
I spent some time recently at Covad, the largest DSL
networking company in the U.S. Covad is my DSL provider,
though I have at other times had DSL service from
Northpoint Communciations and Pacific Bell. The reason
for our meeting was simple: I had no idea how DSL really
works. [...] [Robert Cringely's essay continues at the
following site:]
URL:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20000914.html
FEBRUARY 22, 2001
Sorry, Wrong Number
Why Your Phone Company Hates DSL
[...] Everyone I know would like a faster Internet
connection. That's the attraction of DSL, which is the
fastest connection at a good price that most of us can
get. Yet DSL is to many people a disappointment because
it can be so hard to get in the first place and often
hard to keep running. Both of these problems can be
traced back to a source that isn't your ISP and
probably isn't your DSL provider, either. The problem
is your phone company. [...] It appears to me that the
ILECs are for the most part treating their DSL service
as a loss leader. [...] Why not hold that money-losing
installation a few more months until all the DSL CLECs
are dead, then raise prices? [...] [The entirety of this
essay by Robert Cringely can be read at the following
site:]
URL:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010222.html
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prp
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response 101 of 176:
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Jun 13 01:13 UTC 2001 |
OK, let me see if I have this right. Voyager was a VAR (Value Added Reseller)
of Covad, which was a VAR of Ameritech. Corecomm bought Voyager, and now both
Corecomm and Covad may go bust.
There would be no problem getting out of the contract without penalties, if
Corecomm stops providing Grex with service. If Covad stops providing Corecomm
with service, that is Corecomm's problem. It would be upto Corecomm to find
another DSL provider.
I say renew the contract and find a new ISP with a good life expectancy.
Arrange for service with the new ISP to start as soon as the Corecomm contract
can be canceled, or Corecomm fails.
I would say go with a new ISP and don't renew the Corecomm contract, but there
does not appear to be enough time for that.
Someone or group should get on the phone, and call Merit, Comcast, Earthlink,
and all the ISP's listed in the phonebook for quotes. You could also try
Michigan Bell, but good luck getting anyone who can tell you how much
anything costs.
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devnull
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response 102 of 176:
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Jun 15 23:11 UTC 2001 |
Umm, calling ``all of the ISPs'' is almost certainly not the right approach.
For example, I really don't get the impression that Earthlink is really
capable of selling service that grex would find useful.
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prp
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response 103 of 176:
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Jun 17 12:39 UTC 2001 |
Eathlink definatly does have services Grex would find useful. For one
thing they guarantee 99.5% uptime. I don't know what there prices would
be like. If you look at their web-site, make sure to look under business
not home services.
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steve
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response 104 of 176:
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Jun 18 04:40 UTC 2001 |
Heh. Unfortunately, that guarantee doesn't matter much--when they're
down I believe they sometimes give out a rebate. I know several people
who've used E business data lines, and I don't think they came exactly
close to that kind of uptime. However, to be fair I think that most
places have problems with uptime claims. The net is still young.
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prp
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response 105 of 176:
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Jun 19 00:03 UTC 2001 |
I didn't look at the details of the guarantee, but it is likely just
some sort of rebate. Still it is better than nothing, and if you
hold them to it, they will get the message that you are serious about
uptime.
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krj
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response 106 of 176:
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Aug 7 18:42 UTC 2001 |
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-6801618.html?tag=nbs
"Covad foresees bankruptcy, restructuring"
...
> Covad said it does not expect a bankruptcy filing to
> include its operating companies, which it
> expects will continue to provide service normally.
> Covad said it had 333,000 customers in
> service on its network as of June 30.
This sounds like it might be good news, but someone better trained in
reading business articles would have to say for sure.
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mdw
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response 107 of 176:
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Aug 7 22:40 UTC 2001 |
Could be; hard to tell. I think what they're saying is that they're
running out of money, but hope to sell their principle revenue-making
"valuable" part, their installed customer base, to someone else.
Whether that's true depends on what their creditors argue, and what a
judge in bankruptcy court decides. Unfortunately, nobody in these cases
really cares about customers, so it's a bit of a gamble.
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scg
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response 108 of 176:
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Aug 12 01:24 UTC 2001 |
There may be an example or two I'm missing, but I can't think of any network
companies recently that have gone into bankruptcy and made it out alive.
Northpoint got lots of publicity for shutting down their network. Ricochet
(a provider of mobile wireless Internet access) more quietly shut off their
network a few days ago. Rhythms, Covad's remaining non-RBOC competitor, sent
termination notices to all its customers a couple of days ago. It is still
possible that somebody will buy Covad, or at least its network and subscribers
-- they should be able to do so pretty cheaply and without inheriting the debt
at this point, but it's starting to seem a lot less likely. The companies
I've seen being bought even recently have tended to be bought for pennies on
the dollar well before they get into bankruptcy.
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krj
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response 109 of 176:
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Aug 12 14:47 UTC 2001 |
My view of the situation is that Grex seems to be either unwilling
or unable to spend the money necessary to have a backup internet
connection installed at the Pumpkin, just to have it as an insurance
policy against a 4-8 week shutdown in the event Covad ceases operating.
I thought the solution was to have an ISDN line reinstalled at the
Pumpkin so that it would be ready to go if Covad failed; I stopped
thinking this was such a great idea when I started hearing price
numbers for that ISDN installation. (Falling back to ISDN would
only be a temporary solution, which is why it doesn't make sense to
spend a lot of money on it.)
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krj
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response 110 of 176:
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Aug 12 15:01 UTC 2001 |
Here's the Rhythms shutdown story on Cnet:
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-6838020.html
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krj
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response 111 of 176:
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Aug 12 16:31 UTC 2001 |
resp:109 :: I should add that the "insurance policy" is not cheap;
counting installation charges, and monthly charges for duplicate
service, it would probably cost Grex on the order of a thousand
dollars, roughly 15% of the annual budget.
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mdw
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response 112 of 176:
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Aug 13 04:06 UTC 2001 |
Unless I'm missing something, getting a "backup" connection of
sufficient capacity is liable to double our networking expenses.
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krj
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response 113 of 176:
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Aug 13 15:19 UTC 2001 |
Yup. The flip side of that is, what is the damage to Grex if Covad
fails and the DSL line is lost?
(Financially, I'm worried about the M-net model: contributions
to M-net fell off precipitously, by about 2/3rds, when M-net went
down in June 2000 and stayed down for about six weeks. Contributions
have never really recovered; M-net responded by cutting about half
of its remaining expenses, 3 of its 4 dialin lines.)
If the cost of the "insurance policy"
is deemed unacceptable, then the staff needs to be working
on a drill: what does Grex do if it gets a 30-day (or less) shutdown
notice for the Covad DSL service?
With the Rhythms DSL shutdown following the Northpoint DSL shutdown,
and Covad planning its bankruptcy filing, a termination of Covad DSL
service no longer looks like a remote possibility.
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scg
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response 114 of 176:
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Aug 15 05:02 UTC 2001 |
The other approach would be to get a more stable looking replacement
connection instead of a backup.
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devnull
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response 115 of 176:
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Aug 15 05:34 UTC 2001 |
And what is there that's a stable connection that's better than ISDN BRI
that grex is going to feel it can afford?
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