|
Grex > Agora35 > #21: An item in which Grex's staff crosses the line ... | |
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 163 responses total. |
jazz
|
|
response 90 of 163:
| 
Sep 26 20:11 UTC 2000 |
You haven't been following my posts. I'm asking for a concrete
definition of what you consider to be abuse of a staff account, since you're
asking for a concrete definition of what users can and can't do. I would be
very interested to see what kind of freenet could run where the staff had no
control over what programs users ran.
|
willard
|
|
response 91 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:12 UTC 2000 |
I wish you people would just leave me alone.
|
md
|
|
response 92 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:16 UTC 2000 |
And buzzard wished you would leave *him* alone. So?
|
jazz
|
|
response 93 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:16 UTC 2000 |
Oops, #89 slipped in.
It *is* ironic that you're suggesting that GREX ought to have an AUP,
when you're acting in a similar capacity for an system that does not have an
AUP (as a representative, not a staff member).
|
jp2
|
|
response 94 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:16 UTC 2000 |
This response has been erased.
|
jp2
|
|
response 95 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:18 UTC 2000 |
This response has been erased.
|
tod
|
|
response 96 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:21 UTC 2000 |
re #90
I'm asking the same thing.
In a more perfect operation, I'd have complaints submitted to the staff
alias email for tracking purposes; as well, staff would submit an
email to the staff alias when they are required to intrude someone's
privacy or boot a user from the system. This in fact, would create a nice
trail if situations required investigation or explanation.
Without making too much of a security risk, we could safely say that those
email submissions could be made public as a sort of log of staff operations.
But, that's just one suggestion which I've come up with little thought.
I think folks shouldn't be put-off by a little responsibility for their
actions, whether they are a user making a complaint to the staff or
whether it's a staff with root priviledge. After all, it's a community
asset and we should all share a smidgeon of burden to be accountable amongst
our peers and the community as a whole.
|
k8
|
|
response 97 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:23 UTC 2000 |
I just read every word of this item. Twice. I just wanted to make sure that
it was real.. and that Grex really does house imbeciles. Every single one of
you makes me sick. Was I talking about messed up priorities in the last item?
I think I was. This is *exactly* what I mean.
|
tod
|
|
response 98 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:26 UTC 2000 |
I agree, it's crazy.
(As for my capacity as a representative, it's exactly true. I'm not a root
nor am I sysadmin. I'm not into micromanagement with staff as President.)
I'm a member of Grex, as well. I certainly am not out of line
asking about the AUP, nor should i be questioned for doing so.
|
willard
|
|
response 99 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:30 UTC 2000 |
All I really want is to be left alone.
|
k8
|
|
response 100 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:32 UTC 2000 |
I know.. you poor thing, Michael. These people are horrible for picking on
you like they do.
Especially when picking on includes messing with your files without asking
nicely.
|
willard
|
|
response 101 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:47 UTC 2000 |
What did I ever do to them to deserve this?
|
k8
|
|
response 102 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:50 UTC 2000 |
Beats me. I think you were nice to them and it ruined their stereotype of
'meanie MNetters', so they backlashed and started hating you. It sucks to be
a scapegoat.
|
jerryr
|
|
response 103 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:53 UTC 2000 |
i can understand why some morons might think it's cute to ignore my legitimate
questions, but it smacks of the height of hypocracy when a grex member's
questions are ridiculed and go unanswered.
|
willard
|
|
response 104 of 163:
|
Sep 26 20:55 UTC 2000 |
I'm getting pretty sick of it. Almost to the point where I'm about
ready to go away and never come back.
|
scott
|
|
response 105 of 163:
|
Sep 26 21:00 UTC 2000 |
Jerryr, you are correct in that there is no formal set of rules for Grex.
It's very informal instead. I can see how that might worry people, since if
you don't know the exact rules you don't know if you are in violation (or if
you are missing something that *is* allowed but you didn't know about it).
That's part of Grex. If you are a member, you could have the subject voted
on by the membership.
However, as it turns out, you can presently assume that Grex is less anal than
M-Net about "offensive" users.
|
k8
|
|
response 106 of 163:
|
Sep 26 21:01 UTC 2000 |
*Bullshit*.
Come back and post when you're not smoking crack.
|
tod
|
|
response 107 of 163:
|
Sep 26 21:06 UTC 2000 |
That's a bold statement from a recent offending staff person of Grex.
Sheesh. Why change the subject to M-Net when the questions are
in regards to Grex's AUP?
|
scott
|
|
response 108 of 163:
|
Sep 26 21:15 UTC 2000 |
Why change the subject from the AUP to the same bullshit accusation of Grex
staff abuse, Todd?
And Kate, could you provide any specifics beyond parroting the willard party
line?
|
tod
|
|
response 109 of 163:
|
Sep 26 21:47 UTC 2000 |
Grex is fond of an anarchist AUP it seems.
Fine. Great response, Scott.
|
jp2
|
|
response 110 of 163:
|
Sep 26 21:47 UTC 2000 |
This response has been erased.
|
gull
|
|
response 111 of 163:
|
Sep 26 22:13 UTC 2000 |
Most free systems I've been on dealt with this in the following way:
- They posted a statement saying there is never any guarantee of privacy for
any file on the system, that the system cannot be considered a secure
method of communications, and any email is subject to search if necessary.
They did it in a much more legally robust bit of verbiage, though. My
college's network AUP contains similar language.
- They arbirtarily removed files without warning, if the files were too
large or were something not permitted.
- They disabled all execute privilages on the home partition, and sometimes
disabled the ability to run shell scripts, as well. Many didn't even allow
access to a shell prompt.
Now, obviously doing those things here would have made the entire situation
moot, but personally I like things better the way they are.
As far as there being no AUP, this does require a certain level of trust of
the staff. I think it's a good tradeoff; when making an AUP, you remove all
ability of the staff to use judgement. They can't decide, "well, this person
broke the rules but didn't mean any harm, so we won't lock their account
this time," for example. Once you have written rules, too, the tendancy
will be there for people to look for loopholes in them. What Grex has isn't
an "anarchy AUP," as someone suggested; it's just that there's an implicit
assumption being made that most people will act reasonably, including the
staff. On the whole this is true, but every once in a while we get a
Willard.
I'm very comfortable with Grex's stance on this issue, and I've never had
reason to be upset at the Grex staff's actions. As far as what Willard had
happen, if it had been a text file or an email being edited by staff, I'd
see reason to be upset. Executable code that's being run on the system is
quite another matter.
|
jiffer
|
|
response 112 of 163:
|
Sep 26 22:14 UTC 2000 |
Why is this such a big deal when it should involve simple common sense? If
there is an idle time limit on grex, then you should not go out of your way
to "bust it". It seems pretty obvious on that account. So, people are
throwing stinking piles of poo on the walls for enjoyment now?
|
tod
|
|
response 113 of 163:
|
Sep 26 22:25 UTC 2000 |
It's worth addressing towards future conflict. Per example, if a
paying user finds that their files are being intruded by staff and
unchecked by an AUP then there is a privacy issue that should
be addressed. That's just one example of the type of red herring
that could emerge.
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 114 of 163:
|
Sep 26 23:18 UTC 2000 |
Let's not solve problems that don't exist. If tod's scenario were to
occur, we could set up a policy at that time.
If we were to brainstorm every possible future scenario, and then develop
a policy to handle each of those future scenarios, we'd have such a
rule-bound system that we'd probably strangle ourselves.
|