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Grex > Oldcoop > #201: Next grex (as described by unixpapa) | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 112 responses total. |
remmers
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response 75 of 112:
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Oct 22 20:20 UTC 2004 |
(MH being the Rand Mail Handler.)
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marcvh
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response 76 of 112:
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Oct 22 21:23 UTC 2004 |
(Message Handler, actually, as it has some facility for news and stuff
broader than e-mail, mostly from the pre-NNTP days if I recall.)
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naftee
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response 77 of 112:
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Oct 22 21:26 UTC 2004 |
re 72 If the current version of ft were installed on m-net, you could recieve
infinitely more bug reports!
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dpc
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response 78 of 112:
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Nov 23 21:56 UTC 2004 |
When was the equipment for NextGrex purchased?
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gelinas
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response 79 of 112:
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Nov 24 00:11 UTC 2004 |
May, 2003, IIRC.
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aruba
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response 80 of 112:
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Nov 24 05:43 UTC 2004 |
May is the date when we had all the hardware assembled. Most of the
purchasing was in March and April, 2003.
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dpc
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response 81 of 112:
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Nov 24 15:04 UTC 2004 |
Hm. So it's been a year and a half and we still can't get the thing up.
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mary
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response 82 of 112:
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Nov 25 03:19 UTC 2004 |
Yep. Is this news to you, Dave? Maybe you haven't been around Grex
much the last year or two?
Mostly, after you've gotten over the shock of the situation, I'm
anxious to hear what you'd like to do the address the problem.
I bet our unpaid volunteer staff is looking forward to your
suggestions too.
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dpc
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response 83 of 112:
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Nov 29 18:29 UTC 2004 |
I would like to see a clear list of remaining tasks, with a rough
idea of the staff time needed to do each one, and the order in
which they should be done.
The Board should then set deadlines for the staff to accomplish
each one.
If the deadlines are not met, then the Board should pay outside people
to finish the tasks.
Right now we have plenty of money and no NextGrex. I would much
prefer slightly less money and having NextGrex up.
Otherwise, if the downward spiral in memberships continues, we will
have no money and no Grex at all.
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remmers
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response 84 of 112:
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Nov 29 18:45 UTC 2004 |
We don't have the kind of money people charge commercially for doing
this kind of thing.
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other
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response 85 of 112:
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Nov 29 21:23 UTC 2004 |
Grex does not have the financial leverage to assure any sort of
longevity for itself, and trying to force it, or wish that leverage into
existence will only alienate the human resources (in lieu of financial
ones) on which Grex's continued existence and functionality depend, and
thereby shorten its lifespan.
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dpc
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response 86 of 112:
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Nov 29 21:28 UTC 2004 |
I must point out that our present human resources have not been able,
so far, to insure Grex's continued existence by getting NextGrex up.
Since the human resources haven't done the trick, I think we should
consider using our financial resources. We have a large pile of bucks
in the bank. We should use a few of them.
John, how much money would you think is needed to finish what needs
to be finished on NextGrex?
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dpc
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response 87 of 112:
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Nov 29 21:47 UTC 2004 |
I just tiptoed through the minutes. In April, 2003, we spent over
$1500 on the basic hardware for NextGrex. Most of this was raised
in a special fundraiser.
As of October 31 of this year, we have $3403.50 in the bank, with $3146.96
of that in the general fund.
I think we should spend some of that. Otherwise, the money that people
raised (and spent) for the hardware will not result in any benefits
for the users, for the foreseeable future.
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other
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response 88 of 112:
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Nov 29 21:47 UTC 2004 |
Dave, I think you responded to #85 WITHOUT READING IT. Grex has a
little money socked away, and using it to get done properly just about
any of what is needed to get NextGrex up would be financially
irresponsible, in a very M-Net sort of way. [Commenting on past
history, not personality.]
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other
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response 89 of 112:
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Nov 29 21:50 UTC 2004 |
Our best hope for achieving progress is to encourage our volunteer
staff, to publicly and sincerely appreciate their efforts, and not to
denigrate them for having lives which demand that Grex be a lower
priority for them than other things.
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tod
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response 90 of 112:
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Nov 29 23:04 UTC 2004 |
I agree with Dave about this. I think Eric misses the point that M-Net is
a reliable system with plenty of human resource keeping it running. Grex
isn't in such an agreeable condition. For whatever reason, Grex is lacking
any sort of dedicated staff beyond Jan in regards to NextGrex. It would be
irresponsible to NOT get some assistance via capital, imo. Why is Jan given
the burden (and at the same time the liability if the old Grex were to die)?
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naftee
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response 91 of 112:
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Nov 29 23:09 UTC 2004 |
old GreX is dying with its competent staff.
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dpc
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response 92 of 112:
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Nov 30 14:40 UTC 2004 |
I think we should separate two different staff functions. One is the
normal maintenance, which our staff can handle. The other is the
once-in-a-decade job of setting up a totally new system, which our
staff has not been able to handle.
So I suggest that if we have to, we "open the sock" and use some of
the money we have squirreled away to finish the NextGrex job.
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mary
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response 93 of 112:
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Nov 30 15:10 UTC 2004 |
At any time when you're thinking about our "sock" you need to
consider what is really available for use. Whatever funds we'd
need to close Grex and pay off existing obligations (lease and DSL
contracts come to mind) should be subtracted and not be considered
spendable. That's a considerable chunk of change. Then you have to
consider keeping some funds available for hardware emergencies.
Even NextGrex doesn't come with a warranty anymore. Something
doesn't work, we'd need to fix or replace it. If the problem means
we can't get online then fundraising gets mighty tricky. Let's be
responsible and not go there.
What's left you may be able to spend toward NextGrex technical
support. All three hours of time if we could get it cheap.
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mary
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response 94 of 112:
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Nov 30 15:16 UTC 2004 |
Jan said he'd be back and finish up the project. He isn't obligated
to do this. He probably isn't even motivated to do this. But he
said he would and I'll take him at his word.
I think Grex is going through some changes right now and there are
some not so subtle signs of it all around. Not sure how it will end
up. But I do know that whatever corrective measure we take should
be pretty well thought out and not simply venting or we could end up
making it a whole lot worse.
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jep
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response 95 of 112:
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Nov 30 15:30 UTC 2004 |
I don't think there are a straightforward set of tasks which could be
given to a software contractor, who could then set a price, perform
those tasks, and have NextGrex up and running and ready to replace the
old Grex. I also think that, once the new system is running, there's
an amount of maintenance which will remain -- tweaks, adjustments,
fixes, reverses of direction, and so forth.
I don't know what dpc expects it would cost to hire someone to "finish
the job". I work for a software company, who charges $1000 per day
(and maybe it's $2000) for contracting for the software we built and
sell and maintain full time as our livelihood. If Grex could hire an
individual for $200 per hour, and that person could do NextGrex in 6
weeks, it'd probably be quick work. That'd be what, $48,000?
Maybe dpc is thinking there are college students who could do it for
$10 per hour. College students with a vision of Grex, who are trusted
enough, and have the programming ability and system knowledge and
commitment to do this kind of work -- well, if they're out there, it'd
be great were they to speak up.
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tod
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response 96 of 112:
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Nov 30 20:50 UTC 2004 |
I bet there are some folks on Arbornet's staff that could be outsourced to
Cyberspace Communications. How much money you got in that sock? >:)
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gelinas
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response 97 of 112:
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Dec 1 01:25 UTC 2004 |
I did some back-of-the-envelope calcuations today.
I charge $60/hour. I think it took Jan something over 50 hours to get where
we are, and there are probably close to that many hours' work left to be
done. (The list is a response referenced in the most recent "BoD Agenda"
item.) 50x60=3000, which is what we have. BEFORE subtracting out the
obligations Mary listed.
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lowclass
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response 98 of 112:
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Dec 1 03:29 UTC 2004 |
If it will take a while to get NextGrex up, then it will take a while.
DOing so is some serious skullsweat, and the amount of effort expended so far
is Deeply appreciated, at least by me. You do understand that FUnctioning,
and rock solid stable are completely different things right? We've got PLENTY
in the way of existing SKILLED man-hours in Grex-as-it-is, and there's
likely to be significant software issues in the shakedown, initial public
usage phase of NEXTGREX.
If you know wherwe you are, it's at least slightly easier to figure
out where to go next...
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gelinas
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response 99 of 112:
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Dec 1 03:38 UTC 2004 |
Item 105, Response 277 gives Jan's description of what is left to be done.
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