|
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 316 responses total. |
mdw
|
|
response 75 of 316:
| 
Jun 19 21:56 UTC 1999 |
Grex is a michigan not-for-profit, operated by the members for the
benefit of the public.
|
aruba
|
|
response 76 of 316:
|
Jun 19 22:29 UTC 1999 |
Before we get too caught up in how to identify ourselves - does anyone think
the press release is too long or too short? Anything important that I left
out? Would it interest a reporter in doing a story about Grex?
|
mdw
|
|
response 77 of 316:
|
Jun 19 22:59 UTC 1999 |
If it's too long, the newspaper will trim it down. It's best to design
it like a newspaper article, ie, it should be possible to chop off the
last N paragraphs (where N ranges from 1 to the # of paragraphs in the
release) and it should still make perfect sense. After this, it's
probably better for it to be too long than too short, within reason.
|
other
|
|
response 78 of 316:
|
Jun 20 05:34 UTC 1999 |
as a corporation, i think CCI 'owns' itself. i thought that at a basic
level, this was what the concept of incorporation was all about. the
company becomes an entity which in some ways parallels individual
persons as far as the state is concerned.
|
mary
|
|
response 79 of 316:
|
Jun 20 12:57 UTC 1999 |
Thanks, Mark, for writing this up. I don't think it's too long but I
would like to share some thoughts. I think it's a mistake to spend much
time explaining the volume of text published here or trying to convey how
it would be a big job to moderate the content. Someone concerned about
the their child's safety isn't going to care a whole lot about our
workload - they're probably going to be thinking that unless we can do a
good job at running this system we shouldn't be doing it at all.
And if we were truthful it wouldn't matter if we had the staff-power to
scan every single word and verify each account - we still wouldn't do so.
It's not what we're about.
I'd rather we focused on how this law is not only unnecessary (existing
laws on child pornography and obscenity apply to the Internet) but that it
will put many valuable community resource organizations (like Grex) in
jeopardy. The term "sexually explicit" is too vague to be useful. We've
had serious and enlightening discussions on Grex about circumcision, body
image issues, AIDS, abortion, birth, pornography laws, prostitution, and
so on. We'd no longer be able to provide a forum for such subjects if this
law were allowed to stand. And, even though these topics make up a very
small part of the spectrum, they are of value.
If we're going to address validation and censorship issues I'd suggest
something like this:
One of the ways Grex fosters lively debate is by encouraging any and all to
participate and share their point-of-view. Insisting participants first
register, then wait for an ID check, then submit their comments to
moderators who would filter for content, would clearly limit participation
and stifle discussion. We don't see censorship as a good communication
tool. Grex tends to rely on peer-pressure as needed with an emphasis
on tolerance, and it works.
Anyhow, my 2 cents on the approach. Maybe we could group-think
a cut-and-paste here and come up with a final wording after
more folks have added their suggestions?
|
aruba
|
|
response 80 of 316:
|
Jun 20 14:16 UTC 1999 |
Sure, sounds good. I showed the declaration to a non-Grexer friend, and he
said the numbers were the most impressive thing about it to him; that's why
I featured them so strongly. I think we should leave them in, but emphasizing
the social reasons for our decision is not bad, either. I just want to get
across that we are of limited means, since people may start reading with the
preconception that we are a huge bloodsucking corporation.
|
i
|
|
response 81 of 316:
|
Jun 20 21:45 UTC 1999 |
I'd guess that the "we're of very limited means" numbers will speak
strongly to a medium-sized subset of readers, the rest will be deaf;
while the "it would be a huge job" numbers will similarly speak to a
smallish subset. I think that mary's approach would reach many of
those deaf to the numbers; i'd try to work a nicer wording of 'free
speach for common people like THIS MEANS YOU' into it somehow.
|
aruba
|
|
response 82 of 316:
|
Jun 21 17:15 UTC 1999 |
OK, here's another draft of the press release. I've tried to integrate Mary's
suggestions.
It doesn't read like a coherent essay, but I think that's OK, because I doubt
any reporter would want to use it verbatim anyway. I suspect s/he will want
to pick and choose from the arguments and information presented, so my main
concern was giving them a good selection. :)
Cyberspace Communications Inc., an Ann Arbor, Michigan-based non-profit
corporation that operates the online community Grex (www.cyberspace.org), has
joined a suit to block the implementation of Michigan Public Act 33 of 1999,
which makes it illegal to transmit "sexually explicit" material to minors.
The Act is scheduled to go into effect on August 1st, 1999. Other plaintiffs
in the suit include the ACLU, [list other plaintiffs here].
It is an understandable desire to want to protect children from what some
people see as unhealthy influences. We have existing laws about pornography
and obscenity to do that. This law, however, is broad enough that "sexually
explicit" material may include discussions of rape, AIDS, safe sex,
pornography laws, prostitution, and other topics which are facts of life in
our society. The law encompasses all healthy, even clinical discussions of
sexual issues, not just material designed to shock and titillate. It would
outlaw the transmission over the Internet of many scenes which are shown on
broadcast television.
It's also important to realize that enacting a law to outlaw one kind of
speech inevitably affects other kinds. People afraid of saying the wrong
thing will avoid getting close to a topic that might get them in trouble. The
result is a widespread "chilling effect" on free speech.
The Internet provides prospects for communications which the world has never
seen before. It is commonplace to discuss politics with people in foreign
countries and to meet people with disabilities that would otherwise keep them
from interacting. It allows access to reference material the last generation
could only dream of.
Grex (which means "group" in Latin) has been operating since 1991 as an open
access computer system promoting free speech. Its charitable mission includes
allowing people of limited means access to the Internet and providing a place
for people of all ages and backgrounds to exchange ideas. Grex does not
charge any fees to use its system, and anyone with a computer and modem or
access to the Internet may read and post text anonymously. Funding comes
almost entirely from donations, which are tax-deductable. Grex's total gross
income for 1998 was approximately $8200, and the bulk of its assets is a
collection of obsolete computer equipment that fits in a small rented room.
Grex is staffed entirely by volunteers.
Grex fosters lively debate by encouraging any and all to participate and share
their points of view. Insisting participants first register, then wait for an
ID check, then submit their comments to moderators who would filter for
content, would clearly limit participation and stifle discussion. We don't
see censorship as a good communication tool. We've found time and again that
the best answer to speech one doesn't like is to rebut it, not to censor it.
Public Act 33 would make it impossible for Grex to keep operating as it does
now. We currently have about 29,000 active users all over the world, and 200
new accounts are created daily. Users may post responses in any of over 100
public forums (conferences), which have topics such as music, the arts,
writing, consumer information, finance, small businesses, philosophy, living
with disabilities, men's and women's issues, parenting, pets, computer
hardware and software, nature, and games. The conferences currently contain
about 42 million words of text, roughly 5 times as much as a typical 20-volume
encyclopedia. Approximately 200 new messages are posted to the conferences
every day. Grex also hosts a live chat area in which over 5000 short messages
are posted daily.
The task of validating all users and censoring "sexually explicit" material is
not only damaging to community and to free speech, it is beyond the means of a
small grass-roots organization. Enforcement of this law would mean that only
large wealthy corporations could provide forums for discussion. The content
of all discussions on the Internet would then be limited by the biases of
those corporations.
Cyberspace Communications is a membership-based non-profit corporation, and
all policy decisions are made after discussion in an open forum. The
discussion about joining this suit is accessible at
http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/peek:coop:98
For more information on Grex, visit www.cyberspace.org or call Mary Remmers at
(734) ###-###.
|
remmers
|
|
response 83 of 316:
|
Jun 21 19:56 UTC 1999 |
That's a definite improvement.
Okay, let's work on the "coherence" part.
Some reorganization would improve it and make it more effective as a PR
document. I think the statement about what Grex does and how long it has
been doing it belongs at the beginning rather than the middle, with
emphasis on our non-commerical nature, charitable mission, and free
speech. We can't assume that the average person has a clue about what we
do. Even if they've surfed the web, if they haven't encountered us,
they're likely to assume we're yet another commercial content provider
like the innumerable ones currently out there. As far as they know, we
might even be a porn site, or a hangout for pedophiles, or something
like that.
So we need to tell people what we are and why our service is valuable up
front. This provides a basis for explaining why the new law would hurt
us, and why people should oppose our being hurt rather than favor it.
Here's my thought for an outline:
1. What Grex does - community service, charitable mission
2. We've joined the ACLU suit
3. Why Public Act 33 would hurt us
4. Re-emphasize our charitable mission, community service,
non-commercial nature, and low budget.
I think much of this can be re-arranging Mark's draft. How about I do
some cutting and pasting, and post a revised version? I'll try to do
that in the next couple of hours. Stay tuned...
|
scg
|
|
response 84 of 316:
|
Jun 21 20:21 UTC 1999 |
I'm willing to take a crack at it tonight as well. Keep the drafts coming,
and then we can pick the one we like best at the end, or something like that.
|
dpc
|
|
response 85 of 316:
|
Jun 21 20:30 UTC 1999 |
Also, remember our target audience--a reporter at the AA Snooze. The
reporter should easily be able to pick out pieces from the release
for his/her article. This is *particularly* important because
(1) reporters like sources to have done the work in advance;
(2) the reporter may be unable to reach Mary by phone, and this is
a story in which deadlines matter.
|
aruba
|
|
response 86 of 316:
|
Jun 21 21:06 UTC 1999 |
Hmmm. I think the "news" is that we've joined the suit, so I think that
should go first. That's certainly how a newspaper article about the story
would begin.
|
aruba
|
|
response 87 of 316:
|
Jun 21 21:25 UTC 1999 |
I guess I think it's fine if the paragraph about what Grex is goes second
(where I had it originally) but it shouldn't go before the paragraph
saying we have joined the suit. I moved it further down because I
perceived Mary's criticism to say that people don't really care who we
are, or how much trouble this is for us - they just care about protecting
their kids. So I tried to argue first that the law would do more harm
than good.
But it's always good to identify yourself up front.
|
scg
|
|
response 88 of 316:
|
Jun 21 23:14 UTC 1999 |
The press release should look like a very one sided news article, such that
if a news organization does end up running the thing word for word it's funny,
but doesn't look too awful from our perspective. As such, anything too
blatantly biased should probably be a quote with attribution to somebody,
"John Remmers, President of Cyberspace Communications," or "Mary Remmers,
spokesperson for Cyberspace Communications," etc.
Any quotes that people want stuck into this?
|
aruba
|
|
response 89 of 316:
|
Jun 21 23:18 UTC 1999 |
I don't think we should say aything blatantly biased. I'm only interested in
saying things that are true.
|
scg
|
|
response 90 of 316:
|
Jun 21 23:21 UTC 1999 |
True from our perspective, and blatantly biased from the perspective of well
balanced journalism, can be the same thing. For example, "this law would have
disasterous consequences for free speech," would have no place in a news
article unless it were quoting somebody.
|
remmers
|
|
response 91 of 316:
|
Jun 21 23:59 UTC 1999 |
Okay, here's my draft. Mary made some suggestions which I've
incorporated. It's actually a fairly extensive re-write. As I was
thinking about it, ideas kept occurring to me...
I made a description of Grex the first paragraph, and the lawsuit the
second. But I see Mark's point. The first and second paragraphs could
interchanged almost verbatim. That might be better.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Cyberspace Communications is a Michigan non-profit corporation, based
in Ann Arbor, with a charitable, community-outreach mission. It runs
an online system called Grex, in operation since 1991, accessible via
the internet and the world wide web, whose primary purpose is to
provide a wide range of discussion forums allowing free exchange of
information on any topic. There are forums on music, the arts,
writing, consumer information, living with disabilities, men's and
women's issues, and many other subjects. Grex itself does not create
content, but simply provides a platform on which others may excercise
their right of free speech to share information with others. Grex
does not charge any fees to use its system, and anyone with internet
access may read and post text, anonymously if they wish. Funding
comes almost entirely from donations by users. The technical staff
that maintains the system is volunteer and unpaid. Grex displays no
advertising on its site.
Together with several other plaintiffs, Cyberspace Communications has
filed suit to block Michigan Public Act 33 of 1999, which provides
criminal penalties for providing "sexually explicit" material via the
internet which is harmful to minors. The Act is scheduled to go into
effect on August 1st, 1999. We have filed the suit because we believe
that this law would have a chilling effect on constitutionally
protected free speech, making it impossible for Grex to fulfill its
community-service mission and continue operations in its present form.
The Internet provides prospects for communications which the world has
never seen before. It is now commonplace to discuss politics with
people in foreign countries and to meet people with disabilities that
would otherwise keep them from interacting. Despite operating on a
shoestring budget and being maintained by an entirely volunteer,
unsalaried technical staff, Grex has been enormously successful at its
mission to provide a platform for communication, attracting thousands
of users world-wide. The forums currently contain about 42 million
words of text, about five times the number in a typical 20-volume
encyclopedia. Roughly 200 new messages are posted to the forums every
day; Grex also has a live-chat area in which over 5000 short messages
are posted daily. Although the core of most active users is largely
Michigan-based, Grex has roughly 29,000 users from all over the world.
Grex does not require users to provide identification and does not
pre-screen messages posted to the forums or censor them after the
fact; doing any of these things would be inconsistent with our
free-speech mission. The legitimacy and value of this mission was
recently recognized by the Internal Revenue Service in granting Grex
501(c)3 tax-exempt status.
Public Act 33 would make it impossible for Grex to continue to provide
the kind of free-speech forum to which people are constitutionally
entitled. The law is broad enough that "sexually explicit" material
may include discussions of rape, AIDS, safe sex, pornography laws,
prostitution, and other topics which people are entitled to discuss
openly and frankly. The law encompasses even clinical discussions of
sexual issues. In order to avoid prosecution under this act, Grex
would have to authenticate all users and censor sexually explicit
material. As a user-supported non-profit organization, we do not have
the resources to do the either, nor should we have to in a society
that is protected by First Amendment freedoms. It is also important
to realize that outlawing one area of speech inevitably
affects all forms of communication. People will avoid getting close
to a topics that might get them in trouble, which would have a
widespread chilling effect on free speech. For all of these reasons,
we oppose Public Act 33 and believe it, like the Communications
Decency Act that was struck down by the Supreme Court, to be
unconstitutional.
Readers are invited to visit Grex's web page at
http://www.cyberspace.org and learn about the system for themselves.
The on-line discussion about joining the lawsuit is accessible at
http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/peek:coop:98.
For further information, contact Mary Remmers at ###-###-####.
|
aruba
|
|
response 92 of 316:
|
Jun 22 00:01 UTC 1999 |
That's the kind of thing I don't think we should say.
|
remmers
|
|
response 93 of 316:
|
Jun 22 00:03 UTC 1999 |
By the way, I think it's important that anything that's released to the
press should have some sort of blessing from the board. The board
meeting next Monday may be too long to wait for that, so I've emailed
all the board members asking them to follow this discussion so that we
can at least take a straw vote online.
(Mark's #92 slipped in. Not sure what he's referring to.)
|
remmers
|
|
response 94 of 316:
|
Jun 22 00:08 UTC 1999 |
Not sure about Steve's point in resp:90. I've been thinking of our job
as providing a position paper that a reporter could use in fashioning a
story, not writing the story ourselves.
|
i
|
|
response 95 of 316:
|
Jun 22 00:56 UTC 1999 |
Nitpick - the double use of "others" in lines 9 & 10 of the 1st paragraph
seems like it could be improved upon. My inclination would be to change
it to "...a platform from which individuals may...".
|
aruba
|
|
response 96 of 316:
|
Jun 22 02:37 UTC 1999 |
#92 was a response to #90.
|
scg
|
|
response 97 of 316:
|
Jun 22 07:45 UTC 1999 |
I just had to do an emergency trip to Downtown Detroit during the time I
thought I was going to spend on writing something. I have no idea if I can
come up with anything coherrent at this point.
Having skimmed John's press release, I think his first paragraph starts it
off very wrongly, in that anybody skimming press releases for interesting
stories is going to get bored and move on to something else before they find
out what the press release is about.
|
scg
|
|
response 98 of 316:
|
Jun 22 08:25 UTC 1999 |
Ok, here's my crack at it. Pasting from WordPerfect seems to have done some
strange formatting things:
Cyberspace Communications, Inc., the operator of the Grex computer
conferencing system, has joined in the ACLU s lawsuit against Michigan s
Child Online Protection Act. The organization says the new law, scheduled
to take effect August 1, would make it impossible for it to continue
operating. Grex is a public access computer conferencing system,
providing access to free discussion forums on a variety of topics, e-mail,
and limited Internet access, to more than 28,000 users throughout the
world. The Child Online Protection Act is a law recently passed by the
Michigan Legislature, which provides criminal penalties for providing
"sexually explicit" material via the Internet in ways which make it
accessible to minors. Under the new law, Cyberspace Communications says
it would no longer be able to allow members of the public to post to its
conferences, for fear that the content of those messages could be illegal.
"Public Act 33 would make it impossible for Grex to continue to provide
the kind of free-speech forum to which people are constitutionally
entitled," said John Remmers, President of Cyberspace Communications. "The
law is broad enough that 'sexually explicit' material may include
discussions of rape, AIDS, safe sex, pornography laws, prostitution, and
other topics which people are entitled to discuss openly and frankly. The
law encompasses even clinical discussions of sexual issues. In order to
avoid prosecution under this act, Grex would have to authenticate all
users and censor sexually explicit material. As a user-supported
non-profit organization, we do not have the resources to do either,
nor should we have to in a society that is protected by First Amendment
freedoms."
Grex' s conferencing forums currently contain about 42 million words of
text, about five times the number in a typical 20-volume encyclopedia.
Roughly 200 new messages are posted to the forums every day. Grex also
has a live-chat area in which over 5,000 short messages are posted daily.
Although the core of most active users is largely Michigan-based, Grex has
roughly 29,000 users from all over the world. Grex does not require users
to provide identification and does not pre-screen messages posted to the
forums or censor them after the fact; doing any of thse things would be
inconsistent with Grex s free-speech mission. Cyberspace Communications
was recently granted 501(c)3 tax exempt status by the Internal Revenue
Service.
"The Internet provides prospects for communications which the world has
never seen before," said Remmers. "It is now commonplace to discuss
politics with people in foreign countries, and to meet people with
disabilities that would otherwise keep them from interacting." Grex has
been enormously successful at this mission, despite operating on a
shoestring budget and being maintained by an entirely volunteer,
unsalaried technical staff.
Since Grex is governed by its users, there has been extensive discussion
online about whether to join in the lawsuit. That discussion can be seen
at http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/peek:coop:98. Other plaintiffs in
the lawsuit include: [insert list of plaintiffs here]
--
Cyberspace Communications, based in Ann Arbor Michigan, is a 501(c)3
non-profit corporation. Its website is at http://www.cyberspace.org. For
further information, please contact Mary Remmers, at mary@cyberspace.org
or 734 [###-####.]
|
mary
|
|
response 99 of 316:
|
Jun 22 10:25 UTC 1999 |
I like that version a whole lot, Steve. Very nice.
|