response 67 of 332:

Oct 31 03:01 UTC 2001

It's not like people are standing there screaming at each other....they're
just attempting to drown out the other person.

response 69 of 332:

Oct 31 04:32 UTC 2001

I'm honest enough to admit that it's mostly my lack of patience that's the
problem. :)

response 71 of 332:

Oct 31 09:00 UTC 2001

Well, I expect to be considerably more controversial than I had thought.
I'm probably crazy to do so, but I guess I'll accept my nomination.

I'm sorry eeyore came away with such a negative impression of board
meetings.  I appreciate the time she was able to spend with us, and will
miss the calm but amazing insights she was sometimes able to make at
board meetings.  I always found her worth listening to when she had
anything to say.

I'm sorry to hear Scott decline his nomination, he's always been one of
the good guys.  This may not be the right place to say it, but I've
always appreciated all the work he's done on modems and especially
backups.  This is tedious and unglamorous work, until the moment things
stop working.  I hope he does not feel in any way unappreciated or less
loved.

I can understand Jan declining his nomination, although it is
disappointing.  Must be the "kid" problem.

I think Sylvia (bhelliom) would make a fine board member.  She's been
showing up very consistently at board meetings already, and that's
really the hardest part of the job.  Mary was one of the original
founders, and while I don't always agree with her, she's always worth
listening to as well.  Dunno about KRJ's reputation on m-net, but online
here and in person he's always struck me as a very reasonable person
except perhaps occasionally being a bit pessimistic.  There is a place
for both pessimism and optimism in any realistic plan, and I'm sure KRJ
would work out just fine.  This might even be a decent excuse to get him
interested in doing some staff work as well (grex networking?), which
would be valuable all on its own.

Other has been a very capable and enterprising board member; if he's
decided to decline I hope he'll reconsider.  I've never met cmcgee, but
she's always sounded rational here online, I'm sure she'd be a fine
addition to the board.

The coming year or so may be a crucial time for grex's existance; it's
clear we're making the transition from a "new" system where everyone
remembers to beginning, to being the "old" and fogey system, where the
beginnings are lost in the mist of time and people assume grex will
always be here, no matter what.  At the same time, political events far
away could quickly overshadow *anything* that happens here.  We can
already assume the FBI is reading every scrap of e-mail that comes in &
out of grex - that's something that would have been almost unimaginable
when grex was founded.  I doubt our masters in Washington have any
special reason to dislike grex, but they could easily pass something
that makes our position either more difficult or untenable.  We may be
forced to some difficult decisions.

It is going to be important to elect a board that is capable of working
well together, and facing any of those difficult choices that have to be
made.  I suspect this has already affected some people's decision
whether or not to run; I know I had to think long and hard about it
personally.  I think we can already see some signs of this stress
elsewhere on grex.  I trust people will think carefully about these
choices, and make those that will best benefit grex.

response 75 of 332:

Oct 31 22:25 UTC 2001

re #73 bored staff at the local insurance agency dont count. 

response 79 of 332:

Nov 1 20:44 UTC 2001

Regarding #76; I really have no desire to go into a long debate
about wether or not grex is being watched.  If it is, it is almost
certainly within the context of a much broader ``fish net'' approach
to surveillance.  Also, again, the FBI can only monitor a system with a
court order (which might be granted secretly, if it were deemed necessary
for the national security, etc, etc, etc).  As for Carnivore; so what?
It's a packet sniffer.  The FBI has been able to conduct wiretaps on
telephone communications for years, do you seriously believe that `they'
are listening to your phone calls?  Come on, they have much bigger fish
to worry about frying.  As for the secret service thing, well, if you
threatened Dubya from your house, a local ISP, or wherever, it's likely
you'd have a secret service agent knocking on your door looking for an
explanation, because that's what he's supposed to do.  Or did you stop
following current events post Kennedy?  Does that mean the government is
watching you, Marcus?  No.  It means the secret service is doing its job
in investigating threats made against the President of the United States.

As for your assertion that I haven't been up on current events.  That's
another matter, and where the hell do you get off saying such things?

I live in New York City, I watched the twin towers burn and then collapse
from South of Canal St (look at a map and do the math), I saw Rudy walk
up to 75 Broadway from the emergency command center in the WTC, and I had
to show a driver's license to get into my apartment for almost a week.
My office was closed for as long since it was 6 blocks from ground zero,
and covered in three inches of dust after the buildings collapsed (as was
all of lower Manhattan).  Now, I see armed national guardsmen when I get
off the train at Grand Central, and am living through the Anthrax attacks.
I'm up on current events because I live in the middle of them, and can't
get away from them, even if I wanted to.

And yes, I'm following what's going on in Washington, which is why
I know it's a *long* *Long* *LONG* stretch to say that because the
FBI (and Ashcroft) want expanded wiretapping priviledges that G-men
(or their electronic surrogates) are watching grex Right Now.  I mean,
come on, give me a break; a kid in Brooklyn walked to a window in Utica
High School a few days before the attack, pointed at the towers, and
said, ``you see those buildings?  They won't be there in a few days!''
His Dad split for Pakistan a few days later and hasn't been seen since.
If a kid can do that in downtown Brooklyn without hordes of FBI agents
immediately swooping down on him (they did so later, after the attack),
I think it's pretty stupid to assume that they're monitoring a dinky
Sun machine in the middle of Michigan that has a user population the
size of a sleepy middle American town.

And I'll tell you another thing; if you really want to lecture someone on
``current events,'' then I suggest you get your ass on the next airplane
here, get off at JFK, walk to the Taxi Stand, get in a cab, take the Grand
Central/Van Wyck to the LIE to the Midtown Tunnel, go down 3rd Ave, hang
a right onto Canal, go to Broadway, get out, pay the man for the fare plus
$4 for the tunnel, go West to Broadway walk down Broadway to the Battery.
Make sure you look over your shoulder to the right; once you hit Maiden
Lane, you should experience something I can guarantee you've never seen,
smelt, or heard before in your life, but that I live with every day.

After you've done that, speak about politics and ``current events'' all
you want.  But, unless you've been here since 9/11, you have no context
for understanding such things, and your viewpoint is one borne out of
ignorance and yes, lack of understanding of current issues.

Maybe the added perspective will help you understand *why* the FBI
probably doesn't care one whit about grex.

Sorry for the vitrolism, but if you're going to call me ignorant about
something that I'm intimately familiar with, while you sit and dream
up paranoid conspiracy theories from the comparative safety of middle
America, well, get used to it.

Just don't forget the fact that the ``masters'' willingness to do
something ``indefinately'' is what protects your right to live that
comfortably sheltered lifestyle.  And now, you can please get off
your high horse from which you dare to lecture me about my lack of
understanding [sic] of ``current events.''  Jesus that's nerge.

Hey Marcus, just be glad that you haven't had to watch thousands of
people die; I did.

response 81 of 332:

Nov 2 01:20 UTC 2001

So tell me what *you* think the patriot bill means, and why you think
this doesn't affect grex?

response 83 of 332:

Nov 2 18:07 UTC 2001

I think the expanded CIA privilages in the Patroit Bill will last until 
we have another Nixon-esque President who uses the CIA to harass 
political foes.  Then the resulting outcry will probably cause the CIA 
to be put on a leash again.

response 85 of 332:

Nov 2 21:11 UTC 2001

There's actually at least 3 things flying around: the various proposed
bills, the bills that were actually passed, and how they're actually
*using* the stuff they have.  There is actually a 4th category: what we
*think* they're doing.  It's almost certainly the case that these are
all different.  Ie, they asked for more than they got, illegally gotten
information can have value too, & it's kinda hard for us to know exactly
what they can do anyways.  At least some of the proposals greatly
relaxed the standards the gov't had to follow in order to obtain legal
wiretaps, to the point where it was essentially meaningless.  I have no
idea what was finally actually passed into law, or how it all fits
together.

response 87 of 332:

Nov 3 21:33 UTC 2001

The Patriot Bill, if I remember correctly, included some warrantless wiretap
stuff, at least to the point where once there was a court order for a person,
there didn't need to be orders for the individual taps.

"Carnivore" was a pretty minimal packet sniffer.  For targeting one person,
coming in through one modem pool, it probably worked well.  It didn't (or
doesn't; I'm not sure what its current status) scale well to any sort of
widespread use.

That's not to say there isn't something else that does.  I have heard stories,
short on specifics, of taps in a few places.  I assume they're pretty close
to the network edges, and not picking up more than a small fraction of
Internet traffic.  Whether Grex, or something else at the ISP Grex uses, is
considered interesting enough to be paid attention to, you'll all have to
guess for yourselves.

response 89 of 332:

Nov 4 17:36 UTC 2001

Okay, this seems to be the current status of nominations:

Nominated and accepted:
        mary
        jp2
        bhelliom
        mdw
        orinoco

Nominated but declined:
        eeyore
        janc
        davel
        scott
        arabella

Nominated, but have neither accepted nor declined:
        other
        cmcgee
        krj

Let me know if I missed anything.

Remember that nominations close on November 15.  To appear on
the ballot, a nominee must affirmatively accept in this item
and meet eligibility requirements before the start of voting
on December 1.