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Grex > Agora35 > #21: An item in which Grex's staff crosses the line ... | |
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| 25 new of 163 responses total. |
willard
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response 65 of 163:
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Sep 26 12:45 UTC 2000 |
As far as I can tell, if you're annoying in Agora, staff members have
more freedom to use their superuser privileges to open personal and
private documents in your home directory.
The fact that these files were intentionally closed to public eyes
should be an indication that I don't want them opened, wouldn't you
think? I don't believe that was even considered before scott waltzed
right into my filespace and "helped himself", so to say.
Scott has already demonstrated quite vocally that he does not like me
personally. That by itself opens a large window for impropriety, and
under these circumstances, he should have passed any staff action
against my account on to a less biased and more responsible staff
member.
I personally would've preferred an E-Mail or a telegram to this
feeling of being violated. I have no idea what else scott opened
while he was in my filespace -- he very well may have deemed it
necessary to open my E-Mail. If that's the case, then shame on you,
scott. Shame on you for even opening my files in the first place,
because I don't consider any of my closed files to be less private
than my E-Mail.
I hope that the Grex membership sees the implications of turning a
blind eye to Scott's behavior. Of the dozens of users that the staff
claims to take disciplinary action against on a weekly basis, I
challenge the staff to name ONE, myself excluded, that members of the
staff have publically expressed distaste for. *THAT* is why this is
different, and like it or not, that is why my case is special.
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willard
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response 66 of 163:
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Sep 26 12:52 UTC 2000 |
(The difference is between "There's someone I've never seen before
running fork bombs and evading the idle timer" and "I finally have an
excuse to get back at willard.")
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eeyore
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response 67 of 163:
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Sep 26 13:15 UTC 2000 |
Translation:
"I was running something illeagal on Grex and didn't want to
be caught, so I burried the files, but got caught anyway so
now I'm going to piss and moan because I think I can tie my
being caught to the fact that I've been a real fuck to everybody."
Guess what: You'd get the same treatment even if you were not Willard, but
somebody that nobody had ever heard of. The whole matter of being caught
using illegal scripts, and the fact that staff dealt with you (just like they
normally would), has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with your prior posts in Agora
and elsewhere.
I basically see this as an episode of "Why yes, officer, I did steal that
merchandise, but just because you and several witness watched me take it off
of the shelf and stick it in my bag, it doesn't mean that you get to go into
my bag to take the stolen merchandise!"
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ashke
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response 68 of 163:
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Sep 26 13:28 UTC 2000 |
"shame on you"? Oh god, Willard, please tell me you aren't THAT juvenille.
If you put it on a system, it's not private. It's not your computer. And
the staff have a responsibility to maintain that system. Fact, you ran both
idle-zapper programs and masstel programs. If you want to deny it, go ahead,
but considering you have admitted the former so many time saying "but so
what!" and the latter you entered an item in agora about, there isn't much
point to it.
The staff here have the right to get rid of those things they deem
unacceptable. And you know that they are unacceptable. You wouldn't put up
with it on M-net, don't expect special favors here. You can cry "I'm bein'
oppressed" all you want, but the simple fact is that you did something that
was not allowed, and it was disposed of.
If you want private, run your own little system, keep all the root and staff
passwords to yourself, and hope that no little hacker messes it up. There
is no expectation of privacy on a public forum that you don't own and have
the priviledge of having an account on. If you don't want it here? Move it.
You worried about your e-mail being rifled through, you're a smart guy,
.forward your mail. But don't sit here and cry foul when you are fully aware
of the reprecutions of your actions.
The staff don't go through directories or files or email with the same abandon
that some businesses do. It's their machine. So grow up, or leave. I'm sick
of this, and of you slandering people for doing their job. It's not our
responsibility to clean up after you, but here we are, doing it.
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scott
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response 69 of 163:
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Sep 26 13:45 UTC 2000 |
I love when people start vilifying me to try to cover up their own problems.
Maybe if I wasn't burdened with being a Grex staffer I'd have some free time
to go hang out on M-Net.
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ashke
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response 70 of 163:
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Sep 26 13:53 UTC 2000 |
and for those who don't know :vilify -fied -fying 1: to lower in estimation
or importance 2: to utter slanderous and abusive statements against. Defame
see Malign
Hmm....works for me. Good word, Scott.
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anderyn
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response 71 of 163:
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Sep 26 13:56 UTC 2000 |
I'm just going to say that I thought it was a given that staff could look
at your directories and files if they felt a need to, at least on grex and
on m-net. So what's the big outrage?
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jazz
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response 72 of 163:
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Sep 26 14:28 UTC 2000 |
Anyone who's seen Mike's entires in party (regrettably lost at this
point) when he was first running his idlezapper knows that he was fully aware
that he wasn't supposed to be running it.
And, Sunny, a little hacker *did* mess up the system Willard helps to
admin - haven't you been reading the recent news about Arbornet?
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willard
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response 73 of 163:
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Sep 26 14:29 UTC 2000 |
I've got some naked pictures of scott's mom. If anyone wants to come
look at them, you have to be on Grex's staff and be willing to abuse
your root privileges. Can you resist the temptation?
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ashke
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response 74 of 163:
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Sep 26 14:37 UTC 2000 |
I do remember reading about that. Hmm... Look at that. Actual complaint,
to whining, to temper tantrum, back to the old Mike's behavior. Wow. Wasn't
the productive.
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keesan
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response 75 of 163:
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Sep 26 14:40 UTC 2000 |
I challenge Willard to find some grex staff member, or even some grex member,
who DOES like him. It seems hardly fair to single out Scott. I am also
wondering why Willard is using grex to run his UNIX programs when m-net has
such nice fast new equipment to run them on, and where hopefully the staff
do like Willard. (Any comments from m-net staff?)
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jazz
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response 76 of 163:
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Sep 26 14:42 UTC 2000 |
That's an odd way of looking at things, considering root a "privilege".
It's correct in the technical sense, that it is a privilege for file and
process access, but it's not correct in the general sense, that it's some sort
of public trust that must be carefully guarded to prevent abuse. There are
already laws to prevent people who shouldn't be filching around in your mail
from doing so (although your definition of "shouldn't be" might not agree with
the law's) but there is no guarantee anywhere that I'm aware of that you
should be able to run programs on someone else's system without their scrutiny
of what the program does and whether or not it is a potential security threat
or adversely affects the system.
M-net had a policy against images (and the policy was never written
in an AUP) even existing in users' home directories. At one time, a cron job
ran through all files and checked for magic numbers indicating popular image
formats, though occasionally this restriction was ignored. I believe GREX
has a similar, if not identical, policy regarding images on users' web pages,
and perhaps personal directories.
Either way, good semantical confusion.
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jp2
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response 77 of 163:
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Sep 26 14:43 UTC 2000 |
This response has been erased.
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jazz
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response 78 of 163:
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Sep 26 14:44 UTC 2000 |
Err, laws', not law's.
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scott
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response 79 of 163:
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Sep 26 15:05 UTC 2000 |
Naked pictures of my mother?
Gee, I didn't know willard was into necrophilia.
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krj
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response 80 of 163:
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Sep 26 16:19 UTC 2000 |
In the context of this item, M-net General item 253, starting about
response 10, is a laff riot. jp2 acknowledges that he and willard
were booting people off the system for their behavior in party.
jp2 defends it as an appropriate response to "harrassment."
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jazz
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response 81 of 163:
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Sep 26 16:40 UTC 2000 |
Imagine that.
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jerryr
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response 82 of 163:
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Sep 26 17:31 UTC 2000 |
guess i'm being filtered. anyone care to answer my question?
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tod
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response 83 of 163:
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Sep 26 17:49 UTC 2000 |
So the AUP is by the seat of the pants and the Grex staff admits it.
Wonderful.
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jazz
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response 84 of 163:
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Sep 26 18:48 UTC 2000 |
What's m-net's AUP?
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jp2
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response 85 of 163:
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Sep 26 19:00 UTC 2000 |
This response has been erased.
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jazz
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response 86 of 163:
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Sep 26 19:28 UTC 2000 |
From m-net general 253:
> Response 16:
> Date: Tue, Sep 26, 2000 (10:43)
> From: buzzard@arbornet.org (buzzard)
>
> Willard also felt the need to boot me off, several times yesterday, for
> disagreeing with his views. I also called him nasty names, however this is
> protected speech. I sent e-mail to EFF and they should be contacting Tod
> shortly.
>
> Looks like Arbornet will be losing its blue ribbon rights thanks to Mike
> No-wood.
> Response 22:
> Date: Tue, Sep 26, 2000 (11:18)
> From: Senator Howard (jp2)
>
> A little bit of both. He was acting like a reall asshole in party but I
have
> also booted people for less. Typically they behave after one or two times
> through the process.
> Response 23:
> Date: Tue, Sep 26, 2000 (11:45)
> From: Opium Ad Hoc (tanis)
>
> As much as I would like to boot people someimtes, its kind of bullshit that
> you use your root privileges as such.
> Response 50:
> Date: Tue, Sep 26, 2000 (14:46)
> From: Senator Howard (jp2)
>
> Fucking with buzzard for sport is one thing. (Notice, he still isn't
> complaining about me...?) Look deeper, there is more going on here.
>
> However, when a user tells me they are receiving harassing telegrams or
> hot chat requests even after the user has asked the offender to stop, the
> offender needs a kick in the ass. The user told me of the problem, so I
> politely but firmly informed the offender to stop then told the user to
> let me know if it happened again. Five minutes later I am informed it
> continued. So I telegramed the offender and said, I warned you, and now
> you are being kicked off and *BOOM* he was gone. He logs back in and
> telegrams me saying he cam kick me off too. Never one to let power go
> unexercised, I replied, "No, I'm in charge around here. See?" and there
> he went again. He behaved after that. This is not a freedom of speech
> issue.
So booting someone to "fuck with [them] ... for sport" is an
acceptable thing to do with a root account, and yet disabling a file that's
prohibited by an unwritten (but commonly understood, and understood by the
perpetrator) policy is unacceptable?
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willard
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response 87 of 163:
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Sep 26 19:53 UTC 2000 |
This isn't about M-Net, this is about Grex.
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md
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response 88 of 163:
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Sep 26 20:05 UTC 2000 |
No, Michael, this is about you. Aren't you glad?
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tod
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response 89 of 163:
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Sep 26 20:09 UTC 2000 |
Jazz is asking about the AUP of M-Net. :)
*sings "isn't it ironic" by Alanis Morrisette*
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