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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 113 responses total. |
mcnally
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response 50 of 113:
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Feb 27 18:08 UTC 2006 |
Just to have it. You know, to be all cool and stuff..
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spooked
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response 51 of 113:
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Feb 27 21:41 UTC 2006 |
I never thought a bunch of techie-minded people could continue living
with their blinkers on for so long, but I should not be so surprised by
now.
It is no wonder that the large majority of staff and member base on
Grex are of the older generation, bought up on C (which, sure, has a
place and will never be outsourced). But, you insist on missing the boat
by living in the dark ages - that's all cool with me, I have not been
overly interested in Grex or its dieing conferences in many years now.
I'm totally happy to offer my services elsewhere.
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kingjon
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response 52 of 113:
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Feb 27 21:47 UTC 2006 |
I'm not on staff, but I am a member, and I don't like Java -- and I'm not of
"the older generation," since I'm under 21. I primarily don't like it because I
often find myself on machines with limited bandwidth, limited memory, and/or
limited CPU speed -- and "limited" might be what you think of when you say
"obsolete" (the fastest computer I've ever owned is 350MHz) -- and Java wastes
all of them.
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twenex
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response 53 of 113:
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Feb 27 22:09 UTC 2006 |
Re: #52. Are you trying to make a point, or just insult people?
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keesan
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response 54 of 113:
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Feb 28 01:18 UTC 2006 |
I think #52 is saying that java is resource intensive and therefore not
suitable for a slow crowded system like grex.
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twenex
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response 55 of 113:
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Feb 28 01:29 UTC 2006 |
I misspoke myself. The comments in #53 were addressed to the writer of #51.
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mcnally
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response 56 of 113:
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Feb 28 01:35 UTC 2006 |
#52 appears to confuse Java, the programming language, with Java applets,
executable code collections which are most often run embedded in a web
browser. Java has plenty of other uses, and is, in fact, a useful
technology, which is why I find it odd that mic can't put together a
more convincing argument in its favor.
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naftee
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response 57 of 113:
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Feb 28 04:14 UTC 2006 |
i confused twenex with scholar in resp:53. it tripped me out to think that
KEESAN was responding to SCHOLAR>< and like ; whoa.
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scholar
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response 58 of 113:
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Feb 28 06:03 UTC 2006 |
I think twenex's name is dumb.
After all, planes don't actually FLY at the airports!
They just land there and hang out. :(
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cross
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response 59 of 113:
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Feb 28 06:05 UTC 2006 |
Java is an all right programming language, but my sense of it is that its
popularity has declined in the last few years. All in all, it is, in some
senses, an architectural step backwards (I mean, why couldn't they just gut
it up and make integers objects, already? Still trying too hard for that
efficiency straw man). A more interesting technology to me is Ruby or Python
or another scripting language. If you want to have fun, that's where it's
at. That said, I'd agree that another operating system that supported more
or better software wouldn't be a bad thing for grex.
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spooked
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response 60 of 113:
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Feb 28 09:28 UTC 2006 |
Java, which I have been associated with professionally for nearly a
decade, continues to grow in popularity. You can earn really large
amounts of money if you have advanced Java skills - particularly scarce
at the moment, in terms of talented people versus projects in industry,
are talented people in the J2EE arena. The supply of work is vastly
outnumbering the talented/skilled pool set. Java is massive - from smart
portable devices to inter-enterprise applications - Java is thriving.
One of the major resources I believe where Grex can benefit from offering
Java is attracting and assisting budding Java developers (compared to unix
shell script and C programming skills, the market is 10-fold+ after Java
skills). Some of the coolest web applications can be built for Grex using
Java technologies such as JSP, JDBC, and existing opensource codebases -
abundant! - out there. The level of coolness and time to build such
applications in Java vastly surpasses anything which can be built in C,
Perl, Python, Ruby - I have worked with them all. In some of the coolest
operating systems, such as Solaris 10, you can easily constrain
users/processes/applications to a size of the resource pool (such as
RAM). I think I have responded, in brief, to everyones major points.
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remmers
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response 61 of 113:
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Feb 28 14:54 UTC 2006 |
Pros and cons of Java vs. other languages aside, I think it's part of
Grex's public service mission to install something as widely used as
Java if we can. Can anybody think of a reason why I shouldn't install
kaffe-1.0.6 here? It's a Java package for OpenBSD 3.8. See
http://www.openbsd.org/3.8_packages/i386/kaffe-1.0.6.tgz-long.html
(By the way, if anyone has anything to say about blogs, this is the
"Brainstorming: Grex Blogs" item. This announcement brought to you as a
public service.)
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other
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response 62 of 113:
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Feb 28 17:05 UTC 2006 |
The greatest advantage that I can think of to installing Java on grex is
that tools available in Java make unit testing possible for any coding
projects that are considered for system-wide deployment on Grex.
Unit testing is a way of programming which, if done properly, can
identify and thereby allow the complete elimination of buggy code prior
to deployment. If Grex installs a Java framework to support unit
testing, it may make it much easier for people to contribute tools and
applications in a way that the staff will feel comfortable adding
capabilities to the system without risking a lot of follow-up work
tracking down and fixing bugs.
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scholar
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response 63 of 113:
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Feb 28 21:18 UTC 2006 |
I'm a terrible person. :(
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cross
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response 64 of 113:
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Feb 28 21:24 UTC 2006 |
I tried to address Unit Testing with grexsoft, but no one but me was ever
interested. I take exception to Mic's assertion that Java is more efficient
to program in (as opposed to machine efficiency) than, say, Python or Ruby.
I do note that, according to a cursory search on Freshmeat, the union of
Ruby, Python, and Perl projects has the about a thousand more projects in it
than the set of Java related projects (at around 4600 projects or so; that's
about the same as the number of C++ projects, and probably half the number
of C projects).
But that's neither here nor there. As a system, we should be trying to
get a current, modern JRE and development environment running on grex.
That means an operating system with developers more likely to be more
responsive than, ``you're on your own'' or ``we don't do that here, and
neither should you.''
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cross
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response 65 of 113:
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Feb 28 21:25 UTC 2006 |
(Actually, I take that back; Bruce Howard did some work with integrating
grexsoft into grexdoc, but I'm not sure how it ever turned out.)
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spooked
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response 66 of 113:
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Mar 1 09:11 UTC 2006 |
Yay, finally some clearer thinking from folk.
Ruby is a VERY promising language, Dan, especially Ruby on Rails
framework... BUT, it seriously cannot compete with Java now or in the next
decade.
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cross
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response 67 of 113:
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Mar 1 19:05 UTC 2006 |
Well, let's agree to disagree.
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spooked
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response 68 of 113:
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Mar 1 21:23 UTC 2006 |
No problemo.
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remmers
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response 69 of 113:
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Mar 2 14:39 UTC 2006 |
Hmmm. I installed the kaffe-1.0.6.tgz package, but the only output of the
javac and java commands seems to be core dumps... :(
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cross
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response 70 of 113:
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Mar 2 21:51 UTC 2006 |
(regarding #68; Well, except that we are agreed that grex needs to move to
a better supported OS!)
Regarding #69; Kaffe is also no where near the JDK in terms of
sophistification. OpenBSD really doesn't support a Java that's worthy of the
title.
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spooked
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response 71 of 113:
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Mar 3 09:49 UTC 2006 |
Geez, Dan - you're clever and street wise, too :)
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cross
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response 72 of 113:
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Mar 3 13:58 UTC 2006 |
What can I say? It was all those years living on the lower east side. :-)
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janc
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response 73 of 113:
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Mar 11 20:59 UTC 2006 |
I think one of the main promises of Java was machine independence. You
could implement a package with functionality like, say, Microsoft Money,
and have it run transparently on any machine or OS. The lack of an
adequate Java for OpenBSD is a bad sign for OpenBSD, but it is also a
bad sign for Java. OpenBSD isn't really very different from Linux or
Solaris or FreeBSD, so I assume that the roadblocks to Java are
primarily legal. If there are legal encumberances on Java so great that
a version for OpenBSD cannot be easily made available, then I think that
throws into question Java practical machine independence.
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janc
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response 74 of 113:
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Mar 11 21:01 UTC 2006 |
I have done quite a bit of work on the backtalk/sage interface this
week. Mostly I've been working on the configuration tools, which are
fairly hard to design, since I'm going for massive configurability.
Still have a ways to go before I can demo anything though.
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